Lol, some say it's aim but I believe it could be short barrels..... Couldn't resist.If it were that easy, how come there's so often pee on the floor of public washrooms?
Hunting Rifle MOA Rant
- Thread starter Deviant
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adam32
Well-Known Member
This sums up this whole thread...
adam32
Well-Known Member
And...hahahahahhaha
WildRose
Well-Known Member
Of course they are and there's simply no good reason to shoot more than 3 shot groups with a hunting rifle.
How often will you get more than 3 shots at an animal in the field?
WildRose
Well-Known Member
I try hard never to feed these types of posts but I can't resist.
The shorter the barrel the longer the drop!
Hatrick
Well-Known Member
Some barrels are shot out from being run to hot.
memtb
Well-Known Member
Yep! The first shot, is the most important shot! "If" I'm developing a load...three shot groups. Rarely, will three or more shots for groups be fired, post development. I usually stick with a load for a long while....dependent upon proven "hunting" bullet technology improvements! For proving a zero, prior to a hunt.... I feel that 2 shots, provided that they representative of average group size, is adequate! Saves on components, and "unnecessary" barrel wear! memtb
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Azrael
Well-Known Member
OK, shoot three shot groups. I'm fine with threes when I don't want to torch a good magnum rifle barrel. I can also make an argument for cold-bores and nothing else. This might also be a good place to point out that I don't believe that hunting rifles have to shoot under 1/2 MOA. Also, theres that little problem that if we can't agree on what a 1/2 MOA (or whatever) rifle is, its pretty hard to agree on whether its good enough.
Shoot three, cool off your barrel then shoot 2 or three more at the same target. That will give a better idea of how your rifle shoots. Or 5 cold bores on 5 days if you dare. Or accept that your worst 3 shot groups are a better indicator of the accuracy of the combo than the best three shot groups. Five shot groups tend to be 50% or a bit more bigger than 3 shot groups, and as often as not it has little to do with the barrel heating up. Divide 5 by 3; its not all barrel heat its numbers that are too small. 10 shot groups don't grow to the same extent over 5s indicating that 5 is starting to be enough to predict what the rest are going to do.
As for how many times I'll shoot more than 3 shots in the field, you're asking the wrong guy. In my culling and eradication endevours I'll often rattle off 20-30 rounds faster than you can say "Does anyone else smell fiberglass?"
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I like the 5 cold bore shots in 5 days. It come to be my standard operating procedure for hunting rigs. There is a target on my backstop right now,that has more than that many shots on it. I need to go see how hard mother nature has been on it. I used it to confirm the 270 that's leaving for Colorado with me today for deer. Some times I'll clean between days,sometimes not. It's comforting to see a 3/4" group,on zero,under those conditions.
memtb
Well-Known Member
25 Otter, That is reputed and logically, should be the best method for testing "first shot" repeatability! memtb
I support the OP's position. For most of my 50 years of hunting I have obsessed with the accuracy and consistency of my hunting and competition rifles....But, consider the stakes to be much higher with my hunting rifles where the clean dispatch of game is at stake. I think Bryan Litz does a nice job when he describes the WEZ(weapon employment zone). This concept is invaluable when assessing you and your rifles capability at a given max distance. I will try to achieve the highest level of basic accuracy/precision possible(<.5MOA) out of any of my rifles. It's probably the easiest aspect to achieve, and the most predictable of the shooting variables. With the current technology and information that's available, why settle for less. At the longer ranges, other factors come into play which are much less predicable, like wind, mirage, shooting position, etc. and the shot may have to be passed on regardless of the rifles precision. At the shorter ranges, like the OP, I'll take the ability to "thread a needle" with the best accuracy possible. IMO.
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I totally agree brother. I am obsessed with accuracy and whether a hunting or competition rifle makes no difference to me. I not only demand but expect an accurate product. Now I do my part also with stringent reloading practices and plenty of range time and buying the best gear I can afford. After moving from SC out here to NM my world changed drastically. Hell a long shot in SC was 200 yds. A gun from Walmart with factory ammo can do that pretty efficiently all day long. Here in NM depending on shooters comfort and ability you can shoot as far as you please. Needless to say I had to up my game a bit in not only shooting components but also shooting ability. What seems to be hard to some is accepting that your gear has limits but typically the shooters abilities run out way before that is met. I still use the ol' pie plate to dictate how far I will shoot at an animal. I take my hunting rifle out two months before season load up some fresh pills and I take it every trip to the range. Once I verify my load data is current I shoot one shot at a pie plate every range trip. And every range trip I move that pie plate out 100 yds as I typically start at 500. Once I can't hit that pie plate no matter how close I am the last one I hit is my limit. Might be stupid methodology but it works for me. There are many different processes people use and to each their own, as long as it works. What really bothers me is people with sub par equipment that go buy off the shelf whatever ammo and rely strictly on ballistic apps and never verify dope before going on a hunting trip. And then take a shot at an animal at 800 yds when the farthest they have shot that particular gun is 300 at the local range. All these hunting shows glorify long range kills shots which is cool, there is nothing better than watching a well placed impact on an animal at long range. But typically those rifles, ammo, scopes are top of the line with a shooter behind them that has practiced year round to achieve that. Long range shooting accuracy whether hunting or competition is not an easy game which takes time, fair amount of ability and $$$. The only big difference is, its a different ball game shooting at steel at 1K and an animal. The animal deserves a clean ethical kill and as hunters we need to know our limit to ensure we do our part.
I'm about to start my drive to Montana next week any in preparation for that I've been doing single cold bore shots at different ranges. My gun is very accurate.... It's me that I worry about. So what I have determined is that I will not shoot at an animal out of my comfort zone. That varies with conditions. I took a cold bore shot yesterday around noon at 743 yds and hit low (roughly 3").... It was about 92° when I took the shoot and mirage was heavy with the high humidity the Bullseye looked like it was bobbing up and down lol. My wind call was good but I think my inability to get the bullseye focused with the heat I was seeing affected my range. But at 650, I was dead nuts. So conditions changed my effective rang, but I could see it clearly. So conditions effected my effective range. I won't take a shot on an animal that I know I can't kill with a 100% certainty of knowing where my bullet will hit. (Bullseye is a 3" diameter at 743 and 2" at 650. )
