antelopedundee
Well-Known Member
If I load until the primer starts to flatten I don't stop there and say good enough. I actually back down a bit.
How nonsense becomes fact.
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fiftybmg
Well-Known Member
I've never seen a primer from a proof load, so I can't say what they look like. All loads flatten primers to some degree. Primer flattening is an indication of pressure, the same way recoil is an indication of pressure, the same way brass flow of the case walls is an indication of pressure. I expect that proof loads will at a minimum expand the web enough for the primers to easily drop out. Or have I missed the point of the question ?
I'm questioning nothing that comes from a loading manual or published by a powder manufacturer. I'm not questioning how or what measurements are done in the reloading process. I made a statement about a ridiculous online article written by a gun writer for what is a well known shooting magazine.
The writer of the article did not refer to any manuals or data during load development, and only considered how things looked and how things felt. I'm highlighting the process written about in that article as misleading information, and making a statement : that way of load development is nonsense.
For all who took the time to quote empirical data and manufacturers publications, thank you. The point remains : the gun writer did none of that. Quoting all that to me is informative, but misses what I'm pointing out.
My intention is not to argue with people over how they develop their loads. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, or how to do it. I'm not saying never look at your primers, or ignore how your bolt is working.
The gun writer [ and everyone else ] is entitled to do as he wishes with his reloading.
Not enough of an effort was made to publicise a safe procedure for working up a load for which no data can be found.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
so just a quick question, do you know of any published reload data for Alliant reloder 19 for a 30-06AI that he should have used with his 180gr sierra spitzers ? isn't that the way we all try new powders when there is no reload data for the cartridge we are trying them in? He did start with his "known" 57.5 grain load in a standard 30-06 so he did have a valid and safe starting point for his "wild cat" test --He did say that his old reload manual had similar speeds ( but I'm sure it did not have RL19 data) -- also I would say that he may still be well under max, as noslers reload data for RL22 hits 2985fps-- he obviously used a chronograph as he did list his speeds-- I think his only flaw was that he made larger powder jumps than most of us would have done. What other options would there be other than to have a pressure trace? get reload data off the internet? gee that sounds like another post ongoing right now.
antelopedundee
Well-Known Member
Maybe a smith or someone who works in the business will chime in on the proof load thing.
It wasn't that long ago that I got an email from Hodgdon about working up loads for which little or no data exists. Anyone interested should contact them.
From the Hodgdon site.
""In conclusion, bullets with similar shapes and construction materials will utilize the same data. And, above all else, work up your loads by starting with the beginning load and increase charges in small increments, at all times watching for case head pressure signs and stiff extraction."" Stiff extraction. HMMM Weren't we warned about using that in this thread?
Funny I see no advice to buy a chrono and increase the powder charge until you hit our published velocity and then stop.
Sound familiar? I'm told that a 130 grain Sierra bullet will cause higher pressures than say a 130 grain Hornady bullet of like composition and caliber. I believe that that's somewhat true. Maybe the Sierra cores are harder?
Case head pressure signs? What could those be? Case head expansion? Flattening primers?
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antelopedundee
Well-Known Member
True dat. I was told years ago that Remington primers were the hardest so when it starts to flatten them beware. Someone else have a reliable primer hardness rating?
Mic drop, case closed. @codyadams just laid down the facts. If you're still arguing after that post, you're either stubborn or you need to stick with factory loads. 
fiftybmg
Well-Known Member
Just because you know of no other way, does not make the looking and feeling reliable.
It just makes it good enough for you.
I do expect that a writer for a gun magazine with over 50 years experience reloading, should know, or not write an article about it.
cohunt
Well-Known Member
I asked you if you knew a better way
Ok since the OP knows it all please tell me the max load for N570(my lot not yours) with a .200 freebore chamber in a 30 Nosler with HBN coated Berger 215 bullets in Nosler brass, Hornady brass, Bertram brass, Peterson brass, ADG brass. I will wait... NOT. As others have said in this thread if you can't read pressure signs you have no business reloading. A book or published data is nothing more than a guide. I will not disagree that some throw data around carelessly or some use it carelessly but I really believe that proves my point(and that of others in this thread) even more. Know how to read your setup.
fiftybmg
Well-Known Member
I don't know the mechanics, it's what the powder manufacturers do.
fiftybmg
Well-Known Member
You confuse signs with measurements.
A pressure sign is not a pressure measurement.
Your ability to read pressure signs does not change that fact.
You refer to data as a guide. I agree. What does that have to do with the writer of the article and the article content ?
Thread contributors are providing quotes and references to me. Thank you. What does that have to do with the writer of the article and the article content ?
fiftybmg
Well-Known Member
This looks like a better way.
It doesn't rely on how you feel after looking at something.
That guy is far from an intelligent reloading source or gunsmithing source in this century and you obviously have no clue how much freebore and bearing surface of a bullet can effect pressure. A reloading manual can't do everything for you and generally speaking I agree with the article. I'm confident readers of this thread have or will figure it out. This is a long range hunting for forum and applying the old flip to page XXX of my 1950 Nosler reloading manual so I can load up this 30-06 to shoot deer at 100 yards isn't gonna work for most people here(at least that was the case five years ago). I don't think any minds are getting change by this thread.
