How much Energy to kill an Elk
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ATH
Well-Known Member
Energy by itself is meaningless, as the archery examples show. It depends what it takes to open your bullet. If your bullet lances through without opening, you will likely have a wounded elk that can travel into a very bad spot to recover and possibly not leave a blood trail. Check with the bullet manufacturer as the minimal velocity for reliable bullet expansion and go from there.
I'm also pretty sure that bow and arrows kill due to slicing, which is a totally different killing mechanism than that delivered by a bullet. A typical compound bow (60 lbs., 28" draw) will deliver only 60 ft-lbs. of energy. This is less than the energy out of a .22 short. It is plenty however for an arrow.
Tikkamike
Well-Known Member
I didnt read all the replies so maybe this has been said but here is my opinion and why. I have shot quite a few elk. probably around 20, a lot were with a 7mm rem mag and 160 partitions. it did quite well but I always wanted more. I shot several with my lapua and 300gr SMk and that killed them no problem even out around 800-900. My 338 win with 225 ttsx killed one last year at 880 went through both shoulders. I dont know what the energy way but the sectional density of the bullet was a factor no doubt. and a few years ago I shot a cow at 200 yards with a 25-06 using 100TTSX I recovered a couple of those bullets and expansion was great, energy numbers were all there at that range but the weight and sectional density were not. I shot this cow in the chest facing me the first shot, then as she spun to leave I put another behind her shoulder. I knew she was dead meat. I tracked her for a while and then there she was standing in the trees at about 200 yards. so I started punching holes in her ribs. She was hurt and not able to run but she was still upright and walking. she just kept walking and walking and I kept putting holes in her and none of them seemed to slow her down anymore. eventually the 8 rounds I had with me were gone and she was still standing. Finally she laid down and I was able to sneak up and finish her with a 44. But the point is energy did nothing for me. bullet weight killed me and in the other instances bullet weight saved me. So my opinion is heavy bullets. or in the case of a barnes like in my 338 win a decent weight bullet with good retention.. from my elk experience I have come to the conclusion that the quote from my dad in my signature line is very true. (not to take anything from the 7mag because it does it time and time again but the big 3's are were its at for real elk stopping power)
+1. There are so many factors that we cannot account for in hunting situations, and the bigger diameter bullets really do pick up the slack.
Mike, I sure am surprised at your experience with the 100gr TTSX from your 25-06. I love the terminal performance of Barnes bullets, and typically think that they turn smaller calibers into real hammers, which I'm sure was your thought at taking the 25-06 on your cow hunt. You would sure think that 2-shots from any caliber TTSX would drop an elk within a handful of steps. This is a great real-world example showing why bigger is better... and elk continue to amaze me at how dang tough they really are.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
Without adequate energy to reach and pass through the target the arrow fails just like a bullet that fails to reach the target with enough energy to put a large enough hole in the vitals to cause it to either bleed out or interrupt the CNS. That is why if you hunt behind lots of bow hunters you will see deer and elk running around with shafts still sticking out of them or a broad head buried up in them from long ago.
We killed a large boar hog years ago that was carrying more crap than you could imagine in his shield including buck shot and an old broad head.
The arrow being sharp requires less energy to accomplish the mission but it still requires adequate energy to get it done.
The arrow slices, the bullet rips, tears, and smashes.
Tikkamike
Well-Known Member
I was very surprised. I recovered several bullets out of her but the one that really stuck out was the one from the first shot before her adrenaline kicked in. It went in the chest near the collor bone and got lodged in the meat around the spine...it didnt even hit the vertibrae hard enough to temporarily disable her from the shock, she acted like she wasnt hit other than the blood spraying out. But the next problem is that heavy hide and muscle closed up that chest cavity and stopped the bleeding (and her sucking chest wound) This is why I like exit holes..let the air out and they will die and 2 holes are harder to plug than one.
All this being said I have seen my sister kill several elk when we were kids with a 243 and 100gr partitions. it didnt do it well but she never let one get away. We always told her shoot till it stops moving then shoot it again. the sectional density of that heavy for caliber bullet did a better job than the same weight bullet in a 2506 in my opinion.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
I've seen the same thing in large boars. Sometimes they just refuse to give up that last ounce of life no matter how well they are hit if you don't interrupt the CNS.
Antelope are incredible in that regard.
Ranger21
Member
I agree man, who cares what other say, I Shot a cow this year with a 25-06 loaded with 110 grn. Hornady eld-x at 1,053 yards! One shot and bullet exited! Congrats on your harvest. No gun is to small so as long as you know what you're doing with it!!Energy is velocity squared time weight divided by 450240 = Ken Energy.
It does not take into account of bullet construction, expansion and shot placement.
You can have a super velocity X gr bullet that passes trough the critter with no expansion and have a wounded animal running around the mountains and the bullet flys on carrying its wasted energy to no man's land.
Or you can have a moderate velocity bullet, med weight, hitting the lungs and expanding to do massive damage to the lungs, and stop before it exits the animal, often stopping just under the skin on the far side of the animal, thus expanding its energy totally in the animal.
Or you can have a bullet that expands, destroying the lungs, passing through the animal leaving a large exit wound to assist the animal in bleeding out. Yet some of the energy is wasted because this bullet too, flys off with wasted un-used energy.
In short, in my opinion, I don't pay attention to energy numbers, I want a bullet to expand doing the most damage to the heart and lung are, its nice it if exits leaving a exit wound but I wont loose any sleep if the bullet destroys the heart and lungs and doesn't exit. As long as it penetrates enough to destroy the vitals.
The bullet also needs to have enough mass to blow through a shoulder and still destroy the heart lung area.
Shot placement is the most critical.
Think of energy as heat. I fire in a stove on a cold winter day puts out energy (heat) and its well used while you set in front of in drinking your morning coffee. That same fire would be useless setting out in an open field. Yes it still had energy (heat) but its not doing you any good.
So as said, my opinion is to ignore energy tables, find a bullet and drive it fast enough that you get good expansion and penetration need to do max damage to vitals and then put that bullet into the vitals.
Most people say you need between 1800-2000 ft lbs of KE for elk. Last year I shot this cow at 342 yards with a 270 using 150 Hor. IBs. it should have developed about 1500 lbs at that range. I don't know, I don't care. It destroyed the lungs, and exited. No blood trail because all it did was roll down the hill into the creek. Yet according to some I didn't have near the KE I needed.
Maybe, maybe not, but I have the elk (had, I ate it)
