How much do you value brass brand consistency when reloading?

When I first started reloading not too long ago, I used the brass I had collected from factory ammo. I was cautious to not push the limits and stayed below book max. These first reloaded rounds worked fine for under 300 yard accuracy. Once you start really fine tuning loads and perfecting the craft, you will probably be like me now and buy premium brass. The old mixed head-stamped brass sits in bins now. How much difference does all the meticulous sorting and attention to detail make? Quite a bit once you start looking for consistent results at longer ranges.
 
So I'm about to start reloading for my .308 and was wondering how much of a emphasis you all put on using the same brand brass across all of your hand loads?

I have 160 rounds of once fired brass consisting of a mix of Hornady, Federal, Winchester, Nosler, Sig and Barnes. I'm wondering if I would be better served to just pick up some new brass and start fresh or use the ones I already have. I'd prefer to use the ones I already have but I'm not sure how much change you all generally see in consistency of loads when using different manufacturers brass.

Let me know what you all think and thanks in advance for the help!
I have used different brands of factory reclaimed brass over the years with good success, but I never ever load mixed brands with the same load expecting the same results.

Here is what I would do if I were you and wanted to use factory brass.
1. Take the brand that younhave the most of and set the others aside. Assuming you have no fewer than 40 or 50 of one brand and type, do all the proper case prep on them. (That can be defined later if you dont know those steps). Develop the load you care most about and will shoot the most with.
2. Use the other brass (one of the other types) to develop something different. Examples might be a subsonic load for the 308, crazy fast varmint load with light bullet, a hunting load that you wont mind losing a piece of brass here and there.
3. Offer to trade away the brand(s) that dont match what you have the most of to increase the number of semi-consistent brass.
4. Within that brand that you have the most of, you can volume sort them to find the best of the best for constistent volume.
5. Invest in 100 pcs (around $100) of premium brass, and use all of the factory brass as described above for secondary uses. This approach will get you to the good results the quickest, and could pay for itself in the long haul whereas if you treat the brass right, it ismt uncommon to get 25-30 firings on quality 308 brass.
 
Develop your loads for each type brass separately, they will be different. NATO stuff has less volume. They will go different fps, POI will shift, they will have different SDs. Work up slowly.
I've had good luck with a lot of different brass. I like LC, Winchester, Hornady, Federal and PPU. Load them in lots. Keep good records.
Today I only shoot Lapua in 308, but I pickup every piece of 308 brass I find at the range and hoard them for the zombie apocalypse 😊
Get a good set of bushings for head spacing / shoulder bump back consistently. I like the Whitten universal set up. Before you can shoot it, the round has to fit in the chamber.
Have fun, be safe.
 
to be consistent, pick a maker and stick to it.
i have some mixed 308 too but i think im just gonna buy a couple boxes of peterson or the like and start over.
same lots arent really a concern for me(im just a casual shooter), as long as its the same maker
 
IMO if you're shooting inside 300 yards it doesn't matter at all, and depending what your precision need is that range can be much much further.

I'm 1000% anal-retintive about my ELR and benchrest stuff, but it doesn't take much to pop a whitetail at 120 yards with a grab bag of random brass. My pig hunting brass is mixed headstamp, mixed number of firings, mixed 300 BLK-223 Rem/5.56 LC made into 300 BLK, etc, a complete and total random mix of cases that get shot until they split then that one gets tossed. More likely they get lost before they get shot enough to split. Even hunting loads for my 30-06 is random factory fired brass, I don't need anything better for doe control.

No harm in reloading what you have to get used to the processes before diving in and buying a box of something nicer that you'll keep track of over the lifecycle.
I use mixed brass also. I prep it all then weigh it. Any brass that is either too light or too heavy is discarded. Any off-center flash holes discarded. All flash holes de-burred inside. I rarely shoot over 150 yds.
 
After years of using the cheapest available, I've now gone to only the best available. Both brands come neck annealed and pre trimmed and chamfered. Their weight copnsistency is superb and although the range results are not much improved, I just have a confidence with them in the hunting fields.
 
Off-center flash holes and Deburring the inside of the flash hole are topics rarely covered. Flash holes are punched in most brands and occasionally, you get a piece of brass where the punch left a burr that almost covers up the flash hole.

Sorting brass is complicated. The best way is to use a tool that measures the run out of the thickness of the brass in front of the web. When you go by weight, you do not know where the extra weight is coming from. If you have a thick or thin side in the brass in front of the web, this is more of an issue.

The Rockwell hardness of the brass will vary more than you think. Controlling the neck tension is a HUGE factor for precision shooting. For the average guy, learning to anneal with a propane torch and bread pan with a little water will go a long way. You can even use a candle to anneal with...not even close to rocket science.

Last fall, I was helping a guy who had just got out of the Army work up loads with his Mossberg Wood stock 308. I quick bedded the recoil lug while at the range and free-floated the barrel which did not take much effort. That inexpensive rifle was shooting .375-.500 Groups in a hurry, as we worked up loads at the rifle range. That young kid thought he had won the lottery as he was shooting 2" Groups with a $39 scope at 300 yards! I had prepped 100 cases of Winchester brass to give him.

For the guys using dies with an expander ball, lubing the inside of the neck before pulling the expander ball Minimizes the expander ball from yanking the neck out of alignment. Use Lee Sizing wax in the toothpaste tube or Motor mica. The Lee wax is NOT a petroleum product and will not contaminate the powder, just leave it in as it will also make the bullet release from the neck more uniform.
 
Can someone explain the sorting my weight thing to me? I understand that you are looking for consistency, but consistency in what? Is the weight a general proxy for wall thickness so the assumption is that you'll get more consistent powder capacity out of those?
Weight sorting is very coarse. It can indicate that a case is way different (in some way) than the rest.
But it can't show case character, which is what shows up on target.

I sort same lot# cases by thickness & thickness variance at the necks to begin. I also weigh them, but only to find obviously flawed cases.
Then after fully fireformed, I measure & sort on H20 capacities.
Beyond that, if a case throws a shot, I toss it. Some are just different to the load.

I would never expend all this effort on mixed brass.
 
Before you read all this - I don't think you need to worry a lick about it at all. Bookmark this thread for a year from now once you've reloaded and shot all the cases you have a few times. Walk before you run. Sort your brass into same headstamps, pick the one you have the most of, and start cranking out basic handloads with basic tools to convince yourself you can do it without blowing your self up 🤣 Don't sweat details like this until you've put a few hundred handloads through your rifle. You're going to have enough headaches with more basic steps that are more important. First step is make your handloads shoot better than the factory ammo doing nothing but changing powder weights. You'll get there in your first two or three batches.

Can someone explain the sorting my weight thing to me? I understand that you are looking for consistency, but consistency in what? Is the weight a general proxy for wall thickness so the assumption is that you'll get more consistent powder capacity out of those?
You pretty much nailed it by saying powder capacity.

To build off of what Mike said ^^^, using water to measure the actual VOLUME of each case is the critical measurement that the task is trying to get. If the internal volume is the same, then the same mass of powder poushing on the same weight of bullet sat at the same point in the neck should result in very similar pressure curves on each shot.

High level answer - consistent pressure curve = consistent velocity cuve = consistent ballistics once the bullet exits the barrel.

The red line is chamber pressure, and it has to stay below a certain maximum to be safe. The max varies based on a lot of variables, but cartridges that are approved by SAAMI and used by the major manufacturers all stick to the maximum spec for ammo. If the red line goes high enough.. rifle blows up.

The blue line is velocity, and it what results from the expanding gas of burning powder acting on the bullet. There's a ton of things to go into defining that curve (length of bullet bearing surface, bullet metal type, coatings, throat design on the chamber, etc.), but the goal is to make it very consistent. All brass prep and bullet seating and powder charging and every loading step goes towards making the red and blue lines as close to the same each shot as you can get.

223plot.gif


Now about the two processes to accomplish this:

A lot of guys use case weight to approximate case volume because it's a much easier process than volume sorting. Put the case on the scale and record weight, easy. When I do this I write the weight on the side of the case with a Sharpie and if I drop my tray I don't have to redo all the work. Sharpie wipes off easy when I'm done sorting.

Case weight sorting can be helpful if you know that cases come from distinct sources and it's a fast way to separate them out. Like if I have three boxes of factory ammo with the same headstamp and the cases got mixed up, I should be able to weight sort back into three groups to match the boxes they came from. More than good enough if you're starting with once-fired factory loaded brass.

But there are several things that can make the two measurements not correlate - the extractor groove cut is the primary one. The case head where that cut is made is the heaviest, most solid part of the case, so two cases with the same external weight can have the different internal capacity, and vice versa, based on the wear of a tool during one of the least critical steps of case manufacturing.

So to chase the best precision possible - inside a group of matched cases (ie 100 Lapua cases from the same box), weight should be very similar because they were all cut at the same time. So taking the next step and measuring actual case capacities using liquid to create sub-groups from that lot is required because weight sorting won't really tell you much on high quality cases. Vince mentioned minor details is case manufacturing and several reloading steps that can also affect volume, it's not just one thing that can do it.

I only do water capacity sorting on the most demanding things I load for - mainly 1000 yard benchrest and ELR, but also 17 and 20 cal cases and wildcats that I have to form brass for. On most hunting rifles (even long range ones) I can normally get good enough precision from the rifle without taking that step. But if you're shooting a load and a known good rifle is being weird then it's a good process to be comfortable with to rule out a potential issue.
 
Before you read all this - I don't think you need to worry a lick about it at all. Bookmark this thread for a year from now once you've reloaded and shot all the cases you have a few times. Walk before you run. Sort your brass into same headstamps, pick the one you have the most of, and start cranking out basic handloads with basic tools to convince yourself you can do it without blowing your self up 🤣 Don't sweat details like this until you've put a few hundred handloads through your rifle. You're going to have enough headaches with more basic steps that are more important. First step is make your handloads shoot better than the factory ammo doing nothing but changing powder weights. You'll get there in your first two or three batches.


You pretty much nailed it by saying powder capacity.

To build off of what Mike said ^^^, using water to measure the actual VOLUME of each case is the critical measurement that the task is trying to get. If the internal volume is the same, then the same mass of powder poushing on the same weight of bullet sat at the same point in the neck should result in very similar pressure curves on each shot.

High level answer - consistent pressure curve = consistent velocity cuve = consistent ballistics once the bullet exits the barrel.

The red line is chamber pressure, and it has to stay below a certain maximum to be safe. The max varies based on a lot of variables, but cartridges that are approved by SAAMI and used by the major manufacturers all stick to the maximum spec for ammo. If the red line goes high enough.. rifle blows up.

The blue line is velocity, and it what results from the expanding gas of burning powder acting on the bullet. There's a ton of things to go into defining that curve (length of bullet bearing surface, bullet metal type, coatings, throat design on the chamber, etc.), but the goal is to make it very consistent. All brass prep and bullet seating and powder charging and every loading step goes towards making the red and blue lines as close to the same each shot as you can get.

View attachment 551405

Now about the two processes to accomplish this:

A lot of guys use case weight to approximate case volume because it's a much easier process than volume sorting. Put the case on the scale and record weight, easy. When I do this I write the weight on the side of the case with a Sharpie and if I drop my tray I don't have to redo all the work. Sharpie wipes off easy when I'm done sorting.

Case weight sorting can be helpful if you know that cases come from distinct sources and it's a fast way to separate them out. Like if I have three boxes of factory ammo with the same headstamp and the cases got mixed up, I should be able to weight sort back into three groups to match the boxes they came from. More than good enough if you're starting with once-fired factory loaded brass.

But there are several things that can make the two measurements not correlate - the extractor groove cut is the primary one. The case head where that cut is made is the heaviest, most solid part of the case, so two cases with the same external weight can have the different internal capacity, and vice versa, based on the wear of a tool during one of the least critical steps of case manufacturing.

So to chase the best precision possible - inside a group of matched cases (ie 100 Lapua cases from the same box), weight should be very similar because they were all cut at the same time. So taking the next step and measuring actual case capacities using liquid to create sub-groups from that lot is required because weight sorting won't really tell you much on high quality cases. Vince mentioned minor details is case manufacturing and several reloading steps that can also affect volume, it's not just one thing that can do it.

I only do water capacity sorting on the most demanding things I load for - mainly 1000 yard benchrest and ELR, but also 17 and 20 cal cases and wildcats that I have to form brass for. On most hunting rifles (even long range ones) I can normally get good enough precision from the rifle without taking that step. But if you're shooting a load and a known good rifle is being weird then it's a good process to be comfortable with to rule out a potential issue.
Dumb question. How does one measure the liquid in a case? I've never gone this far with sorting? I've heard many do it, I'm not sure how it's accomplished though.
 
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