VarmintBob
Well-Known Member
An ice pick into your ear does not expand either
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How Many Yards Until No Longer Lethal
- Thread starter Small Lady
- Start date
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He also said that it would have been better if it had killed him. He was in part to blame for the disaster unfolding in front of him.
Baylor243
Well-Known Member
I ran this through Chat GPT and it said the 6.5 Creedmoor was basically infinity.
#winning
#winning
Hugnot
Well-Known Member
Admiral Richardson, a real smart guy, 5th in his class at the USN Naval Academy, fleet commander, Pearl Harbor, having much experience in West Pac & Japanese tactics, advised the political types that the fleet was vulnerable to attack by Japan & subject to logistic problems - this got him fired. I like to work for smart guys and avoid political types.
S
shaughn
Guest
Several outside the box thinkers without agendas said the Pacific Fleet and Pearl Harbor were at risk and that discounting Japanese Imperial ambitions was foolish in the extreme...but what do a bunch of uncouth unlettered rabble know about things...let your betters handle this.....we saw how that worked out
Small Lady
Well-Known Member
crkckr
Well-Known Member
Ok, let's set some deeper rules. For one thing, a bullet from, for example a .308, if fired straight up, most certainly will NOT be lethal when it comes back to earth! I'm not certain about a 750 grain 50 cal, since the much heavier weight equals a lot more retained energy. It is no worse than having the bullet dropped on your head from whatever it's terminal velocity height is. Obviously the weight of a projectile has some bearing on this matter, since a cannon ball will probably flatten you out like pancake at 127 mph! But most rifle or pistol bullets are not dangerous when fall straight down!
However, the velocity of just about anything free falling is around 127 mph. While the bullet will still be *spinning* at nearly the same rpm as when it left the barrel, it will do little more than perhaps give you a headache but will not pierce the skin. In addition, a bullet fired exactly straight up will fall base first (ref. Hatcher's Notebook and others). It will leave a small but noticeable dent in the hood or roof of your car but it definitely will not be lethal!
So what we are talking about here is a bullet fired at some other angle than straight up. I believe 33 degrees gives most bullets their "best" or longest possible distance. Now we are talking about a whole new ball game!
In this situation a bullet will retain a lot more velocity and energy until it strikes the surface of the earth. Without knowing for certain (I am by no means a rocket scientist!), I would say just about any bullet fired from any gun will likely be (at least potentially) lethal if it can hit a human in the chest or abdomen. By the time a bullet falls far enough to lose so much velocity/energy that it's non-lethal it would probably be at ankle height or less.
Keep in mind this all depends on bullet weight and launch speed, or energy. Energy really is the key factor. If a bullet doesn't have enough energy, it will not be as likely to produce a clean kill. You can have a big bullet and low velocity or a small bullet with lots of velocity and they can end up with the same energy (not taking into account bullet construction, placement and all the other things that add up to a clean kill). Energy, even minimum enery, is what it takes to kill something. Without that minimum energy no bullet is going to penetrate and be lethal.
Of course, range comes into play as well. Bullets lose energy in flight. That's a fact. Even if you can hail mary a bullet into a target from your muzzle loader your bullet might not have enough energy to penetrate fur or flesh far enought to be lethal. It's the same with your 50 cal.! Any 50 cal. that has enough energy to leave a mark directly level across your chest has enough energy to rip your lungs out! Then again, so does a musket ball!
So essentially it all comes down to angle and range! One thing I can promise is, if you ever get hit by a bullet (or shot) you better hope it is small and was fired from a very, very steep angle! As someone who has been peppered by #8 shot on more than one occasion (poorly arranged Sporting Clays field. It's startling but not in the least painful, even on a bare neck!), angle and energy are everything!
Cheers,
crkckr
However, the velocity of just about anything free falling is around 127 mph. While the bullet will still be *spinning* at nearly the same rpm as when it left the barrel, it will do little more than perhaps give you a headache but will not pierce the skin. In addition, a bullet fired exactly straight up will fall base first (ref. Hatcher's Notebook and others). It will leave a small but noticeable dent in the hood or roof of your car but it definitely will not be lethal!
So what we are talking about here is a bullet fired at some other angle than straight up. I believe 33 degrees gives most bullets their "best" or longest possible distance. Now we are talking about a whole new ball game!
In this situation a bullet will retain a lot more velocity and energy until it strikes the surface of the earth. Without knowing for certain (I am by no means a rocket scientist!), I would say just about any bullet fired from any gun will likely be (at least potentially) lethal if it can hit a human in the chest or abdomen. By the time a bullet falls far enough to lose so much velocity/energy that it's non-lethal it would probably be at ankle height or less.
Keep in mind this all depends on bullet weight and launch speed, or energy. Energy really is the key factor. If a bullet doesn't have enough energy, it will not be as likely to produce a clean kill. You can have a big bullet and low velocity or a small bullet with lots of velocity and they can end up with the same energy (not taking into account bullet construction, placement and all the other things that add up to a clean kill). Energy, even minimum enery, is what it takes to kill something. Without that minimum energy no bullet is going to penetrate and be lethal.
Of course, range comes into play as well. Bullets lose energy in flight. That's a fact. Even if you can hail mary a bullet into a target from your muzzle loader your bullet might not have enough energy to penetrate fur or flesh far enought to be lethal. It's the same with your 50 cal.! Any 50 cal. that has enough energy to leave a mark directly level across your chest has enough energy to rip your lungs out! Then again, so does a musket ball!
So essentially it all comes down to angle and range! One thing I can promise is, if you ever get hit by a bullet (or shot) you better hope it is small and was fired from a very, very steep angle! As someone who has been peppered by #8 shot on more than one occasion (poorly arranged Sporting Clays field. It's startling but not in the least painful, even on a bare neck!), angle and energy are everything!
Cheers,
crkckr
Hugnot
Well-Known Member
Taking a look at the little 7.62 X 39, 123 FMJ.
Commonly used by those supported by Russia, like NVA.
I have some experience with these but have never shot one.
About 20 years ago I was involved in a real estate conflict with a contractor and a bunch of attorneys. Things got ugly; the contactor walked off the job & barricaded my property preventing entry. I broke into my own property & completed the interior work & hired this nice guy & his wife to complete the exterior. I did a masterful job inside - beautiful paint, floor, plumbing, trim -looked great. We moved in. We then hired an attorney to respond to the contractor's lien of $.3 M on the property, alleging the lien was frivolous and countered/asked for $.1M damages. The business went into mediation, The contractor caved in & accepted our gracious offer. Much rage was generated as the contractor made a commitment to his guys to finish the interior work for some 3rd party who made a $.5M offer on our property, Nice inside winter work was jerked away - no pay, no real estate 6% commissions, no cash, unhappy (PO'd real bad).
We happily lived in our nice house, celebrated Christmas, my mother's 94th birthday, and had many good meals with friends - stuff that makes life good.
Then -- I moved our big old CRT TV into the living room from our sunroom because it was warmer & darker. I was watching the weather when I heard what sounded like glass falling & breaking. Dumb like, I walked into the sunroom & picked up a hot 7.62X39 123 grain bullet from the floor. Dumb, a second shot would have hit me.
Checking stuff out - the range was estimated at 300-350 yards, a drive by shot from road, most likely from a SKS. The bullet hit the window screen & flipped sideways then busted thru glass, went across room, and hit inside heavy vinyl window frame at 90 degrees from entry. Had I been sitting at my usual place the bullet would have hit my head, like blood & brains on nice rug on the tile floor. The shot missed wifey by 6-8 feet, she was standing at kitchen sink in next room.
The 7.62X39 is not a powerful round but my thinking is that it is marginally stabilized by shifting the bullets center or mass towards back of bullet by changing core material causing bullet to go sideways (yaw) upon impact, increasing wounding while being compliant with Hague convention(s). Twist is more than adequate being faster than 1-10.
Commonly used by those supported by Russia, like NVA.
I have some experience with these but have never shot one.
About 20 years ago I was involved in a real estate conflict with a contractor and a bunch of attorneys. Things got ugly; the contactor walked off the job & barricaded my property preventing entry. I broke into my own property & completed the interior work & hired this nice guy & his wife to complete the exterior. I did a masterful job inside - beautiful paint, floor, plumbing, trim -looked great. We moved in. We then hired an attorney to respond to the contractor's lien of $.3 M on the property, alleging the lien was frivolous and countered/asked for $.1M damages. The business went into mediation, The contractor caved in & accepted our gracious offer. Much rage was generated as the contractor made a commitment to his guys to finish the interior work for some 3rd party who made a $.5M offer on our property, Nice inside winter work was jerked away - no pay, no real estate 6% commissions, no cash, unhappy (PO'd real bad).
We happily lived in our nice house, celebrated Christmas, my mother's 94th birthday, and had many good meals with friends - stuff that makes life good.
Then -- I moved our big old CRT TV into the living room from our sunroom because it was warmer & darker. I was watching the weather when I heard what sounded like glass falling & breaking. Dumb like, I walked into the sunroom & picked up a hot 7.62X39 123 grain bullet from the floor. Dumb, a second shot would have hit me.
Checking stuff out - the range was estimated at 300-350 yards, a drive by shot from road, most likely from a SKS. The bullet hit the window screen & flipped sideways then busted thru glass, went across room, and hit inside heavy vinyl window frame at 90 degrees from entry. Had I been sitting at my usual place the bullet would have hit my head, like blood & brains on nice rug on the tile floor. The shot missed wifey by 6-8 feet, she was standing at kitchen sink in next room.
The 7.62X39 is not a powerful round but my thinking is that it is marginally stabilized by shifting the bullets center or mass towards back of bullet by changing core material causing bullet to go sideways (yaw) upon impact, increasing wounding while being compliant with Hague convention(s). Twist is more than adequate being faster than 1-10.
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I'll take energy over placement anyday. But your right energy may need a follow-up, easypeezy.
Hugnot
Well-Known Member
It's all about inflicting trauma.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
This goes on all the time. I serviced under 7 different Captians in the fields of Vietnam. Was in to many to count of firefights during my time there. I have had the rest of my life to think about what was done and not done while over there. Some were jackass and some were very good. Only one I would have followed straight into hell and we would have made it. I severed under a few different squadron commards. One Lt. Col that was very good and the rest weren't worth a ****. By June of 1969 I had a lot of firefight under my belt. I didn't really understand how the fire were lead by the Lt. Col. until after that day.
When we would make contact with the VC or NVA. We would pull back and let the jets and artillery work them over for and undetermined time, depending the size force we make contact with. That was well above my pay grade. I had given it much thought about it until June 19, 1969. We were involved possible one of the biggest firefight that day. What I couldn't figure out why we were being pushed back into the fight with only a few airstrikes time and time again. This went on all day. Normal was the Airforce would pound them into the ground, before we would push back in. That day was totally different. I never seem so many RPG before flying through the air. Looked like rain. Captain Carson literally lost his head by an RPG. Along with several other things being done wrong. I didn't have much use for Captain Carson anyway. I went around with him a few time during his stay with C troop, 3/4 Cav, 25th Inf. Div. If you don't believe me look him up on the wall. Killed in action June 19, 1969. He was hard on his men, but fairly good at commanding a firefight.
Back to the story: I was madder than hell about what had gone on that day. Found out a few days later a Brig. General took over commard of the Squadon, and got many men killed and wounded that day. I knew the fly boys with the Lt. Col. They told me the Lt. Col was crying about the Brig General killing his men. I never found out who the Brig General was. If I did I would go and p**s on his gravel.
Well there a little piece of history for you.
The one thing for sure, I learn just how much people make in leading.
We got one now that's real stupid!
When we would make contact with the VC or NVA. We would pull back and let the jets and artillery work them over for and undetermined time, depending the size force we make contact with. That was well above my pay grade. I had given it much thought about it until June 19, 1969. We were involved possible one of the biggest firefight that day. What I couldn't figure out why we were being pushed back into the fight with only a few airstrikes time and time again. This went on all day. Normal was the Airforce would pound them into the ground, before we would push back in. That day was totally different. I never seem so many RPG before flying through the air. Looked like rain. Captain Carson literally lost his head by an RPG. Along with several other things being done wrong. I didn't have much use for Captain Carson anyway. I went around with him a few time during his stay with C troop, 3/4 Cav, 25th Inf. Div. If you don't believe me look him up on the wall. Killed in action June 19, 1969. He was hard on his men, but fairly good at commanding a firefight.
Back to the story: I was madder than hell about what had gone on that day. Found out a few days later a Brig. General took over commard of the Squadon, and got many men killed and wounded that day. I knew the fly boys with the Lt. Col. They told me the Lt. Col was crying about the Brig General killing his men. I never found out who the Brig General was. If I did I would go and p**s on his gravel.
Well there a little piece of history for you.
The one thing for sure, I learn just how much people make in leading.
We got one now that's real stupid!
Culpeper
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2008
- Messages
- 223
Energy = mass X velocity squared. At some point every bullet has its spent range where it is no longer lethal, per se. Nevertheless, a lot of people have been wounded and killed by spent rounds. The OP is really asking about stopping power in a general way, which isn't sufficient to provide a definite answer. That is a whole study based on many factors. There is no short answer as life is too unpredictable and so are bullets left to their own devices. Nevertheless, the deliberate lethality range of any firearm and ammo combo is easily calculated in this day of smartphone apps. The OP can look it up maybe read a book.
What a s the point of having a forum and having discussions if all the info we get, we look up or read a book. There would be nothing to discuss.
Culpeper
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2008
- Messages
- 223
Actually, there would be more informed discussions. BTW, Custer graduated at the bottom of his class and was killed at close range, lol.
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