How i hate shooting 100yds?

[bigngreen]

WildRose,

You are a shooter. I am a hunter. Who the hell cares what my MOA was at the time my 160 grain Partition shredded my bull's heart? Is that what motivates you, the shot as opposed to the hunt? Would you get excited putting a mega-mag bullet into an animal's gut at a 1000 yards? Would you call that a good kill?

My Sako 7MM Rem Mag will shoot very, very tiny groups. I had a game warden friend who was a hell of a hunter. He's now in Heaven. He had a few custom built rifles. He told me that not of them would shoot as accurately as my Sako. In fact, I'll go my stock Sako out-shooting your million dollar sniper rifle.

Here's what did it for me. I did not snipe my huge, and I mean HUGE bull. I hunted him: dead, dog-tired hunted him, on his turf. I didn't sit on a bench and wait for him to appear at a thousand yards. I went after him, on his turf, with him in control of the outcome. We chased him for a good 90 minutes up & down Rocky Mountain ridges at at 9000'. When he made the mistake of stopping at 130 away, probably trying to figure out what we were, I had to wait at least a minute and probably two before my breathing and heart rate slowed before I was able to put a 160 grain Partition right through his heart. Every single HUNTER I talked with said it was as excellent shot, especially considering circumstances and conditions. But you wouldn't know a thing about hunting big game. You're a sniper. I'm a hunter. And you want to come up with some ridiculous BS about 6-MOA?

You ought to stick to punching paper and stay the heck away from hunting fields.

I've said this before & I'll say it again, I do not care how other people kill their game. But you can test patience of ethical hunters. And hunting is all about ethics. It ain't about how far away a shooter can snipe anything. To leave ethics out of hunting is like leaving powder out of cartridges. It's meaningless.

Man, we understand your pumped about your bull, he's awesome and you had a great hunt but you can't run down others hunts just because it's not exactly how you do it.

Your getting hugely confused about how we hunt and what motivates us, it's precision that motivates us to work hard on the minute details regardless of range, just because I have the ability to take game as cleanly at 1000+ yards as I do 100 does not mean I'm not hunting, if you look at the forum you'll find a common theme of practicing and becoming the most proficient shooter we can at range only to take game at close range. For every long range kill you'll read about there are dozen of normal range kills because it's about the hunt, we just do a lot of work to make sure that when it's time to make the kill it's to the same standards as the rest of the hunt.
I know you worked for your bull but I guarantee you many of us have taken elk at long range have worked harder, just because it was taken at range does not make me a sniper nor does in devalue my hunt. You used a guide which is no different than me using range but you will never see me or other guys trying to devalue YOUR hunt because you used a guide. Nothing more fun that high country elk hunting, it's what gets me through the year!!

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Man, we understand your pumped about your bull, he's awesome and you had a great hunt but you can't run down others hunts just because it's not exactly how you do it.

Your getting hugely confused about how we hunt and what motivates us, it's precision that motivates us to work hard on the minute details regardless of range, just because I have the ability to take game as cleanly at 1000+ yards as I do 100 does not mean I'm not hunting, if you look at the forum you'll find a common theme of practicing and becoming the most proficient shooter we can at range only to take game at close range. For every long range kill you'll read about there are dozen of normal range kills because it's about the hunt, we just do a lot of work to make sure that when it's time to make the kill it's to the same standards as the rest of the hunt.
I know you worked for your bull but I guarantee you many of us have taken elk at long range have worked harder, just because it was taken at range does not make me a sniper nor does in devalue my hunt. You used a guide which is no different than me using range but you will never see me or other guys trying to devalue YOUR hunt because you used a guide. Nothing more fun that high country elk hunting, it's what gets me through the year!!

Well said bigngreen.

Yeah... People should get married before having sex, never throw out food on ones plate as people are starving in Africa, and be nice to everyone because peace on earth & good will towards men is divine. The problem with being at the pulpit and preaching what everone else "should" think and do, is that usually, what fits that individual and works well for them, doesn't fit everyone else and wouldn't necessarily work for those preached to. Sans... I respect that you want to hunt your game in a manner that "you" think is ethical and important to YOU. Somehow, I don't think anyone anointed you as the authority on the subject... And what may be important to you might not be as important to someone else. I try respecting others right to choose.

I dont necessarily agree with everyone and I have those issues that I believe are important... but first and foremost in my mind is an individual's right to choose.

 

[WildRose]

Do you just not clean the bores of those rifles?

The ones that like to shoot dirty I never fully clean really. Maybe run a couple of cycles of foaming bore cleaner through them till they stop having the black ring showing carbon being removed then just swab them out with alcohol and oil after it's dry.

The .204's and 220 swifts I try to keep very clean because the margins are so slim but I don't clean them in the field even on a prairie dog hunt. I'll just swab them with oil periodically dragging a brush wrapped with a patch through them a couple or three times.

The ones that don't like to shoot dirty I clean thoroughly between seasons or when they start showing reduced accuracy but then I'll still fire a few foulers and swab them with oil before putting up or rezeroing to continue using for the season.

 

[WildRose]

WildRose,

You are a shooter. I am a hunter. Who the hell cares what my MOA was at the time my 160 grain Partition shredded my bull's heart? Is that what motivates you, the shot as opposed to the hunt? Would you get excited putting a mega-mag bullet into an animal's gut at a 1000 yards? Would you call that a good kill?

My Sako 7MM Rem Mag will shoot very, very tiny groups. I had a game warden friend who was a hell of a hunter. He's now in Heaven. He had a few custom built rifles. He told me that not of them would shoot as accurately as my Sako. In fact, I'll go my stock Sako out-shooting your million dollar sniper rifle.

Here's what did it for me. I did not snipe my huge, and I mean HUGE bull. I hunted him: dead, dog-tired hunted him, on his turf. I didn't sit on a bench and wait for him to appear at a thousand yards. I went after him, on his turf, with him in control of the outcome. We chased him for a good 90 minutes up & down Rocky Mountain ridges at at 9000'. When he made the mistake of stopping at 130 away, probably trying to figure out what we were, I had to wait at least a minute and probably two before my breathing and heart rate slowed before I was able to put a 160 grain Partition right through his heart. Every single HUNTER I talked with said it was as excellent shot, especially considering circumstances and conditions. But you wouldn't know a thing about hunting big game. You're a sniper. I'm a hunter. And you want to come up with some ridiculous BS about 6-MOA?

You ought to stick to punching paper and stay the heck away from hunting fields.

I've said this before & I'll say it again, I do not care how other people kill their game. But you can test patience of ethical hunters. And hunting is all about ethics. It ain't about how far away a shooter can snipe anything. To leave ethics out of hunting is like leaving powder out of cartridges. It's meaningless.

This is the "Long Range Hunting" website. If that does not suit you there are plenty of other places for you to play on the internet. I'll remind you again that our host here has few rules but the ethics of long range hunting is not a subject to be debated on this website.

I'm sure your SAKO is a wonderful rifle, they make a good product but a Walmrt Special with a cheap scope is all one needs to hit a 6-8MOA sized target at 130yds in the hands of the average 12yo hunter. It's certainly nothing to brag about as some great achievement in accuracy.

We are all hunters here whether our last kill was at fifty, five hundred or over a thousand yards.

Most of us dedicate huge amounts of time and resources preparing to be able to make a clean kill at long range but if you've read may of the success threads you'll see a lot of laughing by the hunter who shot it at short to medium range. We take what we can get when the critter being sought walks out, we just strive to be able to make longer shots than most people will ever attempt when the need arises.

You could learn a whole lot here if you tried but you'll have to can the attitude in order to do so.

 

[MOA Chaser]

I only shoot at a 100 to sight in when I have changed scopes or removed stock or something similar. Almost all of my rifles are zeroed at 300 and that is where I do most of my paper punching and MOA checking. I have a 300 yard range measured out on my driveway with a bench at one end and a big red flag at the target when I'm "hot". The mailman and the delivery drivers really appreciate the red flag.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

I only shoot at a 100 to sight in when I have changed scopes or removed stock or something similar. Almost all of my rifles are zeroed at 300 and that is where I do most of my paper punching and MOA checking. I have a 300 yard range measured out on my driveway with a bench at one end and a big red flag at the target when I'm "hot". The mailman and the delivery drivers really appreciate the red flag.

I'm getting to the point where most of my development is getting done at 300 as well. If for no other reason than to circumvent my poor attitude when I have to shoot 100.

 

[dragman]

I'm getting to the point where most of my development is getting done at 300 as well. If for no other reason than to circumvent my poor attitude when I have to shoot 100.

See maybe it's the bench-rest in me but I do all my development at 100 yards. anything further and I am not 100% confident that the wind or conditions could be having some effect on what I am seeing. after I get my loads I fine tune seating and neck tension by shooting at 1050 yards to insure that I don't have any vertical. once a load proves it will shoot .125 or better center too center @ 100 and give me sub 1/2 MOA at 1050 with under 2" of vertical It is a winner.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

See maybe it's the bench-rest in me but I do all my development at 100 yards. anything further and I am not 100% confident that the wind or conditions could be having some effect on what I am seeing. after I get my loads I fine tune seating and neck tension by shooting at 1050 yards to insure that I don't have any vertical. once a load proves it will shoot .125 or better center too center @ 100 and give me sub 1/2 MOA at 1050 with under 2" of vertical It is a winner.

Up to this past weekend thats how ive done everything. After sighting my rifle in almost 1 moa high i started this thread.

 

[royinidaho]

Bushman, I hear ya!!!

Kirby Allen has a fairly recent post regarding this topic that changed my thinkin' big time!!

He zeros at 1200 or something then works back from there.

His thinking seems to be that minuscule error @ 100 results in significant error at distance.

Made sense to me.

I now get the longest distance spot on. Usually takes only a couple of shots.

I then work back to 500, the shortest distance I can shoot at this spot.

Then as you stated, the 100 yard group falls where ever it falls.

Saves a ton of shooting time/bullets/powder/barrel life and frustration.

Found I was stuck in my old bench rest habit/thinking/etc.

So, you've stumbled onto a good thing.

Also, who in the hell shots anything, on purpose, at less than 200 yards.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

Bushman, I hear ya!!!

Kirby Allen has a fairly recent post regarding this topic that changed my thinkin' big time!!

He zeros at 1200 or something then works back from there.

His thinking seems to be that minuscule error @ 100 results in significant error at distance.

Made sense to me.

I now get the longest distance spot on. Usually takes only a couple of shots.

I then work back to 500, the shortest distance I can shoot at this spot.

Then as you stated, the 100 yard group falls where ever it falls.

Saves a ton of shooting time/bullets/powder/barrel life and frustration.

Found I was stuck in my old bench rest habit/thinking/etc.

So, you've stumbled onto a good thing.

Also, who in the hell shots anything, on purpose, at less than 200 yards.

Man it feels good to hear im not the only one.

Thats what happened to me last weekend, i shot foulers than zeroed with a .75" group that looked about .25" high.
Verified at 650yds, 2" group nearly 6" high
Verified at 870yds, 4" group nearly 10" high
Zeroed at 870, returned to 100 and center punched the x
Verified at 650 3.5" group perfectly centered.

By the time i was finished id spent almost 30 rounds.
Only problem is doing it backwards only works if your data is proven

If i shoot something at 100 i dont care if im a half inch off.

 

[WildRose]

Man it feels good to hear im not the only one.

Thats what happened to me last weekend, i shot foulers than zeroed with a .75" group that looked about .25" high.
Verified at 650yds, 2" group nearly 6" high
Verified at 870yds, 4" group nearly 10" high
Zeroed at 870, returned to 100 and center punched the x
Verified at 650 3.5" group perfectly centered.

By the time i was finished id spent almost 30 rounds.
Only problem is doing it backwards only works if your data is proven

If i shoot something at 100 i dont care if im a half inch off.

In general once I have a freshly mounted scope on paper adequately I'll do my sighting in on rocks at known ranges.

It's just more fun that way!

 

[Canadian Bushman]

In general once I have a freshly mounted scope on paper adequately I'll do my sighting in on rocks at known ranges.

It's just more fun that way!

Its definitely more fun to sight in at distance

 

[WildRose]

Its definitely more fun to sight in at distance

Fortunately my neighbors fields are full of nice white rocks that go "poof" when you hit them and heavy clay soil that doesn't.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

Fortunately my neighbors fields are full of nice white rocks that go "poof" when you hit them and heavy clay soil that doesn't.

Thats pretty fortunate, 90% of the shooting i do is in a cotton field.
I got 4 trees and a creek in about a square mile of row crop. If you wanna shoot anything you better bring it with you.