How Does the 300 Win and 30 Nos. Compare

[Lonewolf74]

Hey guy's hope I'm not somewhat hi-jackin but I'm newer to this and wanting to start my own build on either a 300 wm or the 30 nosler and have lots of questions.

The first is if I understand right with the 30 nosler built on a standard long action it would be easier to load longer OAL bullets without having clearance issues because the 30 nosler case is slightly shorter than a 300 wm?

Is brass available from anyone besides nosler or norma? I would like to get and play around with lapua brass for some of my reloading.

Does not having the belt on the case make is easier for reloading, setting head space ect?

Why did the 300 wsm not become more popular? I know it was hyped up when it first came out being more accurate due to a shorter stiffer action slightly better velocity due to more efficient burn but did these things prove not to be true or what are the short falls of the 300 wsm?

 

[FURMAN]

Others will chime in but the 300WM can seat a 215 Berger where it belongs in a standard Remington box. Nolser is the only option currently for the 30 Nosler. The 300 WM has several options but I have never been able to get my hands on Lapua brass. The 300 WSM does well in competition with very long barrels but lacks the horsepower I want in a long range hunting cartridge. The belt on the WM makes no difference to me.

 

[Lonewolf74]

We just finished (Jan 8th) a 30 Nosler JP build and there was no disappointment. JP over at Fine Firearms is an amazing gun builder

Bighorn SR3 action (we received serial #1 & 2)
26" Brux #5 barrel 4 groove 9 twist
McMillan Game Warden stock Carbon filled (blind magazine)
Jewell trigger (2lbs)
Wyatt extended box blind magazine, follower and spring
Fine Firearms muzzle break
Remington ADL aluminum trigger guard

The gun shoots lights out and has already shot an elk as well as ding donged the 1K gong with ease.

I worked up two loads with the 215 Bergers.

83.6 grains of Retumbo for a velocity of 3050 fps from the doppler
82.8 grains of Magnum for a velocity of 3015 fps from the doppler

The 30 Nosler JP reamer allows for a bit more breathing room for powder and bullet. So 3000+ FPS with the 215 Berger was achieved with ease.

Both of the above loads proved to be very accurate but another load that shot well came from 80.3 grains of Retumbo @ 2900 fps from the Magneto Speed. The group shown was shot #'s 1- 6 through the new barrel.

There were no seating depth changes (all were .035" of the lands) and the Nosler brass was stuffed with GM215M primers, necks and flash holes cleaned etc.

I have brass ready to be stuffed with H1000 next. The gun seems to shoot everything very well so far. And I will experiment with the 212 ELD-X as well. The gun currently has 117 rounds through it. It is finished for the exception of Cerakote. We left on a late season elk hunt last week and ran out of time.

The two elk we shot (while not a convincing sample size) proved to showcase the 30 Nosler/215 Berger combo to be quite deadly. The damage the bullets caused were extensive to say the least. We were not afforded long shots, however the guns were impressive on the game regardless!

I hope this thread continues as there is merit to be given to a cartridge that is so easy to load, doesn't seem finicky and is certainly a contender in .30 caliber class.

Below is gun #2 in the test chassis with a Leupold Competition Series 40x scope for load development.

Looking forward to posting some more info regarding further testing as well as reading data from others.

NBK I'm curious what do you mean by "the 30 nosler JP reamer allows for a little more breathing room"? Does it mean the throat is slightly longer to allow a little more jump if desired? Just trying to learn all I can cus I'm hoping to start my own build and wanna have all specs figured out to build exactly what I want.

 

[Alaska2006]

300WM has been hard to beat for half a century and will remain so. Taking nothing away from the 30 Nosler but its just another loaf of bread in a different colored bag.

Fads come and go. Just my opinion.
I've had several 300WM and will likely have many more.

 

[NBK]

300WM has been hard to beat for half a century and will remain so. Taking nothing away from the 30 Nosler but its just another loaf of bread in a different colored bag.

Fads come and go. Just my opinion.
I've had several 300WM and will likely have many more.

My knowledge has no basis, more reliable, than my own meandering experience.

The 300 WM is a 54-year-old cartridge that has and will serve the shooting pubic well. It would be boring though, to say it is the end all for the .30 caliber magnum class. The idea of companies developing "different colored bags" keeps the industry moving forward. It also affords the reloading community a different view into cartridge performance. And most importantly, it entertains dorks like me!

It may be naive to discount the efficiency, size and performance of the 30 Nosler. As noted, the 300 WM can run heavy bullets in a standard action with a 26" barrel @ 3000 fps - but does so at the edge of its limits where the Nosler doesn't seem to work quite as hard to meet the same criteria. So they both get the job done. Pick your poison.

Here is something to chew on. While in NM on our last hunt at a 5500 foot elevation (47º), the 30 Noslers were shooting the 215 Berger 5.4 mils @ 1K (100 yard zero). Do the math on that...

Lonewolf74 - Yes, the throat dims are different on the reamer used. This was done to take advantage of the extra magazine space the 30 Nosler provides. We also experienced consistent SD's as low as 5 fps with this configuration. JP thought this through during the project spec. The cartridge and rifles are performing exactly how we anticipated.

 

[Lonewolf74]

Thanks for the responses guy's I appreciate the info. NBK would I be able to talk to thus JP about your build or similar? I got a small town smith that does my gun work but I gotta put in the research on this one. Hope this isn't a dumb question but what is SD's?

 

[FEENIX]

Others will chime in but the 300WM can seat a 215 Berger where it belongs in a standard Remington box. Nolser is the only option currently for the 30 Nosler. The 300 WM has several options but I have never been able to get my hands on Lapua brass. The 300 WSM does well in competition with very long barrels but lacks the horsepower I want in a long range hunting cartridge. The belt on the WM makes no difference to me.

I could be wrong but I don't think Lapua makes belted cartridges anymore, hopefully, someone else will chime in.

I'm with you, the belt don't bother me either, in fact my last custom build is a wildcat based on 8MM Rem Mag cartridge. gun)

 

[Lonewolf74]

Yea I should of researched before I asked from what I found Lapua doesn't make brass for any 300 cartridge.

Another question I have is about where would the max OAL be on a 300 wm or 30 nosler using vld's or other long bullets? Would 3.715 be long or could they possibly get longer? I ask cus I wanna know what bottom metal and mag options to go with for a build if I wanna be able to play around with long bullets and seat them close to the lands. I'm leaning towards PTG bottom metal but there's several options in mag length and such and I don't know for sure if 3.715 is the actual mag length or if that's the max cartridge length it would allow? I did email PTG for some clarification on this.

Thanks again for all the help guy's

 

[Gord0]

I could be wrong but I don't think Lapua makes belted cartridges anymore, hopefully, someone else will chime in.

I'm with you, the belt don't bother me either, in fact my last custom build is a wildcat based on 8MM Rem Mag cartridge. gun)

From what I have read Lapua has never made belted cartridges. They had someone else make them for them to their specifications.

 

[brentc]

From what I have read Lapua has never made belted cartridges. They had someone else make them for them to their specifications.

Yup. Norma made Lapua 300 WM brass. It's the same weight (~215-220 grains) and has the same capacity as light Norma brass and Nosler, which is also Norma made. It is slightly controversial as to what specification the Lapua headstamped brass was made, but for all intents and purposes, it's the same across the board. Loads developed in any one of these three cases will transfer to the other two without problems.

 

[Broz]

Yup. Norma made Lapua 300 WM brass. It's the same weight (~215-220 grains) and has the same capacity as light Norma brass and Nosler, which is also Norma made. It is slightly controversial as to what specification the Lapua headstamped brass was made, but for all intents and purposes, it's the same across the board. Loads developed in any one of these three cases will transfer to the other two without problems.

Well, yes and no and maybe. I have 300 win mag Lapua brass. Yes it was said to be made by Norma for Lapua. And Yes we have no real way to know what criteria and specs it was made under. But I do know this. I have been running it with full house loads for 15 + firings now and just after the last two cycles the primer pockets will need tightening. Never before with any max load have I got even near this type of brass life from any Norma brass. Weatherby head stamp included. I do think the load would safely transfer to a Norma 300 win mag head stamp case. But I would bet it would not go 15 firings. This is just my opinion after using both versions of the 300 win brass for several years now.

FWIW
Jeff

 

[MZMpac]

I'm growing to love the 300WM. I think the 30 Nosler---it's creator Mike Lake even said so---is just another flavor of an already established, proven performer. New cartridges are what makes the industry fun for these guys, and what makes shooting and reloading interesting for us.

I'm a big Nosler guy but I would never have a rifle built in a 30 Nosler. Their other offerings like the 28 have much more appeal for me and fill more of a functional gap.

 

[FEENIX]

From what I have read Lapua has never made belted cartridges. They had someone else make them for them to their specifications.

I think you're right and for some reason Norma comes to mind, but again it has been so long when I read the article and no longer have it for reference.

I'm sure someone will chime in and keep us all straight.

 

[Gord0]

Well, yes and no and maybe. I have 300 win mag Lapua brass. Yes it was said to be made by Norma for Lapua. And Yes we have no real way to know what criteria and specs it was made under. But I do know this. I have been running it with full house loads for 15 + firings now and just after the last two cycles the primer pockets will need tightening. Never before with any max load have I got even near this type of brass life from any Norma brass. Weatherby head stamp included. I do think the load would safely transfer to a Norma 300 win mag head stamp case. But I would bet it would not go 15 firings. This is just my opinion after using both versions of the 300 win brass for several years now.

FWIW
Jeff

I would guess that the Lapua brass is just a little bit harder in the head area than what Norma is. It may even have slightly different metallurgy than the Norma too.