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How do YOU fire form Ackley Cartridges?

I agree all methods (COW, shooting regular factory loads, and jamming the lands) will all work. But imo all have some waste, after all we're using components. I jam the lands in my Remington 700 to defeat the ejector spring. But if the chamber properly reamed this "shouldn't" be an issue. I don't feel it's a waste because I enjoy shooting and my fire forming load was very accurate. COW uses much less powder but uses primers and powder to form. And it takes time and effort to produce brass. And from what I've seen the brass isn't fully fire formed, but pretty close. Hydraulic dies are nice but can be expensive. Any of these methods have their pros and cons, find the one that fits you the best. If you don't find it works for you try another that might. That's what happens to most of us anyways.
 
if your a brass snob like me I had my smith Taylor my chamber for thicker necks and in my 280AI and I run lapua 30-06 so I put a false shoulder on the brass make sure it's snug when I close the bolt I used a mild 280 load and just make sure you grease the lugs when fire forming
Nice
 
I have read up to the most recent reply #8. It would be good to tell us what cartridge your rifle is chambered in. There are numerous methods, as have been described in the previous replies, that can be used when forming brass for a wildcat. I prefer the COW method, but thanks to your thread I'll be trying the "Choc-full-of-nuts" method next. If you've talked with FEENIX I strongly recommend following his suggestions, he will not set you wrong. He is the one who really helped me along when I first started loading for my .270 AI. I've used hydro form dies from Hornady, after forming 10 cases the piston on the die started burring up and became impossible to take apart. I would recommend Whidden hydro form dies if you want to go the hydro form route. For the .270 AI I am using 16.0 grains of Unique in the case first, then fill the case up with COW to where the shoulder junctions with the neck, then fill the rest of the case with rolled up toilet paper. This is a pretty stout load and quite load so don't be surprised when the round goes off. Also I "strongly" recommend that you invest more of your hard earned money, yup that's right this ain't a cheap date!!! After I bought an annealer I found that I would not fire form without annealing my brass first no matter what cartridge your reloading for. I also strongly recommend investing in a good set of dial calipers and some Hornady loc an load comparators to measure shoulder dimensions and COAL as well. Annealing your brass prior to fire forming will give you a better fire form because the brass is softer and you will get a better fire form or hydro form on the first try. If you are using the parent case and have components, don't worry about costs then by all means load up some rounds with a mid-range powder charge and you will get a pretty good fire form with the first firing. For me personally I really do not get a really good formed case until after this first actual firing of a bullet. "If" you are reloading for the .270 AI, I would suggest starting using a powder load one-grain below the maximum load of the .270 WInchester and work you're way up from there. I also would suggest using caution when getting load data recommendations off the internet. Every rifle has its own variables and every rifle reacts to loads differently, so tread carefully with recommendations. For an case annealing I use an Annealeez, but started out with a salt bath process, cost about $120 to get set up. The salt bath system works well, I just didn't like having liquid/melted salt (like 450 degrees hot) around my face and hands. If there's a mistake made with the melted salt the results can be catastrophic. Some may argue that a torch is equally as dangerous, however I believe that a torch is much more forgiving than extremely hot, melted salt. If you do a search on the forum there are plenty of threads referencing annealing. When I started reloading the .270 AI, I figured there would be a learning curve, and there was, so bought some WInchester brass instead of Lapua or Petterson brass because I preferred to destroy inexpensive brass instead of premium brass while learning to fire form. If I we're to go this way again I would only invest bin like 60 pieces of the inexpensive brass to learn my rifle from and then move on to the quality brass. I say this only due to the amount of time and money invested in components put into fire forming. A couple of more pieces of equipment you can spend your hard earned cash on would be a neck turning tool, and either bushing dies or a mandrel die set up for tuning your neck tension. I've never used bushing dies do cannot help you there. Again do more searches on the forum and you'll find lots of information on these processes. There's a bunch of good guys on here with a wealth of information and "experience" who are willing to share and help you through. Most on here are strongly opinionated and can be a real PITA, but you will get some good information related to reloading. I apologize for the long and unorganized dissertation. I'm typing on the iPhone, fat fingers and small device. Good luck with your new adventure. Hope this reply helps you out.
Raoul,

I appreciate the compliment. I am sorry you had issues with your Hornady hydraulic forming die. My .30 Lara hydraulic forming die was custom-built by Whidden and has formed over 100 brass without problems. For my .338 Thor, I have my GS built it using Newlon blank die and Whidden plunger system. I have formed 100 already, and my GS is doing another 100 for a friend.

Newlon forming die.jpg

Whiddeen hydraulic form die plunger set-up.jpg

Hydraulic forming die.jpg
 
I know this topic is as broad as the people that do it, but how do you fire form your AI brass?

I've got my 1st AI at the gun smith and will be hopefully fire forming soon. I'm putting my plan together now.

Do you use cream of wheat, bee's wax, loaded ammo?

I've got loaded ammo that I'm hoping to break the barrel in with and retain the brass for later. I'm also looking to fire form new premium brass.

Please include your recipes...

Thanks
HW
I make 270 Sherman out of 280 AI. Neck down to .270, load old 130 gr bullets that I wouldn't use for anything else, use and old powder that I wouldn't use for anything else and go bang.
 
My reading on the topic has been that Mr. Ackley always designed his improved chambers to have the original, non-impoved factory ammo shot in them. So much so that I'll suggest that if you can't do this then it is not an "Ackley Improved" chamber. It may be an 'improved' chamber, but it's not an Ackley. It would be more like a typical wildcat chambering where other methods, such as those shown by Feenix, would be the better way to make the brass.

I own one AI and I shoot factory ammo in it. So far that is all that I've ever shot in it.
I have two .270 Ackley Improved rifles that I reload for. Both rifles are built on Ruger 77s, both built by the same gunsmith using the same components, the same reamer and built at the same time. With my son's .270AI regular .270 Winchester brass will chamber quite easily, but with my .270AI the bolt is quite hard to close and has to be tapped down with my palm to close. I think that you are correct about the Ackley's chamber being designed to shoot the parent cartridge in the Ackley Improved chamber, simply saying that sometimes how the rifle is built can have an influence upon how the case chambers.
 
Raoul,

I appreciate the compliment. I am sorry you had issues with your Hornady hydraulic forming die. My .30 Lara hydraulic forming die was custom-built by Whidden and has formed over 100 brass without problems. For my .338 Thor, I have my GS built it using Newlon blank die and Whidden plunger system. I have formed 100 already, and my GS is doing another 100 for a friend.

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I've been curious about this it would save a lot of components when forming six arc brass I'm going to look into it
 
To be honest, I chickened out on a variant of the C.O.W. method. I don't have any shooting partners to consult with and guys on the Internet were giving all kinds of advice. Then, the only pistol powder I could find wasn't listed as a favorite amongst the guys that were providing info. So, I ended up loading some cheap bullets into the lands with a load one grain below max for the parent case. Worked great.
 
Raoul,

I appreciate the compliment. I am sorry you had issues with your Hornady hydraulic forming die. My .30 Lara hydraulic forming die was custom-built by Whidden and has formed over 100 brass without problems. For my .338 Thor, I have my GS built it using Newlon blank die and Whidden plunger system. I have formed 100 already, and my GS is doing another 100 for a friend.

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Thank you for posting this. I am going to look into Whidden hydro forming dies. I have had nothing but issues with the Hornady hydro forming die. I even have Hornady's "Ben" in my contacts of my iPhone. I sent the die back to them after forming only like 14 cases, the plunger just seized up. I sent the die back to them and they returned it repaired. Well...10 more cases formed and again the same issue. I think that the plunger is too small and too long making is somewhat fragile. After the second time with an issue I was sent a new plunger and again the same issue. I also believe that the die itself is not hard enough which is causing the inside to the die where the plunger rides to burr up. I called Ben at Hornady and again and got a lot of nonsense from him. I find hydro forming to be a better option than COW, although both processes are time consuming. Although, retired and winter time does give me some time to spare. I'm going to look into Whidden dies.
 
As mentioned if done the way P.O designed it factory can be shot with no ill effects to brass.
If unknown, I highly suggest bumping the neck up to an oversize then necking back down till you get a crush fit, makes sure the brass is firmly against bolt face. That allows the brass to move up front and not at the web.

Half a dozen AI's over the years, I quit the COW method quickly as I got good usable accuracy out of fire forming loads. Price and availability of powder and primer makes the hydraulic forming in a die look even better.
 
To be honest, I chickened out on a variant of the C.O.W. method. I don't have any shooting partners to consult with and guys on the Internet were giving all kinds of advice. Then, the only pistol powder I could find wasn't listed as a favorite amongst the guys that were providing info. So, I ended up loading some cheap bullets into the lands with a load one grain below max for the parent case. Worked great.
If you have components reloading bullets and firing them is a good process. Even with COW or hydro forming, in my rifles I do not get a true fire form until after that first initial firing. I just purchased a box (100) of Hornady, 150 grain, .30 caliber, 30-30 bullets for $10 just to have on hand for fire forming. I don't have either a .30 caliber wildcat or a 30-30 "right' now, but figured they would be worth having around just in case the occasion arises. That same dealer had some 100gr .277 bullets that I picked up just for fire forming as well. I've read on the forum where some guys develop their loads while fire forming their brass, this has not worked for me with my rifles. Gotta be careful with load data on the internet, there's lots of people with crazy ideas or crazy motives or just plain stupid and do not know what they are writing about. I have been using 15 grains of Unique for the COW process and have good results from this load. The COW process really works for me because I have a four-pound can of Unique that I really do not use much of. I use Unique for loading .45 ACP and the load is like 5 grains of powder so do not use much of it and do not shoot a lot of .45. I have had this can of powder around for at least 10-15 years or more. The can is original factory red and is made out of steel.
 
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