How do YOU fire form Ackley Cartridges?

[milo-2]

No reason your fireforming load cannot be as accurate as the finished product. Use the powder and bullet you will use down the road.
I have fireformed a lot of brass, but only one AI case, 6BRA, neck stayed the same length so rifles are chambered with a crush fit.
If the neck length is to be shorter by design after FF, I say go false shoulder route.

By your OP, I would not try run 2 different groups of brass, if me, I would shelve the loaded ammo for another gun, and form the premium brass.

 

[xsn10s]

I know this topic is as broad as the people that do it, but how do you fire form your AI brass?

I've got my 1st AI at the gun smith and will be hopefully fire forming soon. I'm putting my plan together now.

Do you use cream of wheat, bee's wax, loaded ammo?

I've got loaded ammo that I'm hoping to break the barrel in with and retain the brass for later. I'm also looking to fire form new premium brass.

Please include your recipes...

Thanks
HW

What action are you using for your build?

 

[Schw15]

I had a lot of ackleys and I found jamming the bullet into the lands to hold the brass in place with a medium load from partent case is best. I usually buy cheaper bullets and just shoot them if the Barrel is new so I can break the barrel in and fireform all the brass. If it's 270 ai my dad shoots one pretty cool case.

Virgin 270 brass should close a little harder than normal if set up right. If not it's not a huge deal that's why I jam the bullets. Just watch for case head separation to make sure head space is set it proper. I personally wouldn't ever have a ackley again just more of a process. Only ackleys I'd have is the ones that come ready like 280 ai ect.

 

[FEENIX]

I have a 270 ICL built by Vern Junke (Saturn) in the 50's or 60's (not sure).

I throw factory 270 win ammo in it and pull the trigger. Accuracy is great, so I just use it as a 270 win.

I am familiar with the .277 ICL Flying Saucer (necked-up and blown-out .25 Roberts) and .270 ICL Magnum (.264 WM necked up to .270) but not the .270 Win variant.

 

[ntsqd]

My reading on the topic has been that Mr. Ackley always designed his improved chambers to have the original, non-impoved factory ammo shot in them. So much so that I'll suggest that if you can't do this then it is not an "Ackley Improved" chamber. It may be an 'improved' chamber, but it's not an Ackley. It would be more like a typical wildcat chambering where other methods, such as those shown by Feenix, would be the better way to make the brass.

I own one AI and I shoot factory ammo in it. So far that is all that I've ever shot in it.

 

[Hugnot]

COW but coffee sounds nicer - bullets are pricy.

The Ackley Improved chamber is slightly shorter than the parent case to alow for a crush fit and closing the bolt on an unformed case might be impossible, should the chamber be not deep enough - excessive brass length, crush fit won't work, bolt lugs not intended to size brass. My solution is to grind down an extra shell holder that will allow more case compression so unformed brass may have the desired crush fit. I keep the ground down shell holder in my AI die box with the dies. In any event a crush fit is essential, keep the case base snug against the bolt face. Go easy to prevent case buckling when initially sizing down.

I use pistol primers for COW fire forming. I'm guessing that 25-30 K psi will result in a nice sharp shoulder. Large pistol primers are more available than large rifle primers - save those valuable large rifle primers.

I use any kind of pistol powder for COW fire forming. Best to start with 10% of entire weight of full case load. Most often the final fire form load will be 12%-15%.

Fireforming without COW has not worked for me.

I COW fireform inside my garage. I use a 5 ft long piece of PVC (white) 3-inch diameter pipe capped at one end. I bunge cord the pipe to a step ladder. The barrel of the rifle is placed inside the pipe & the COW round fired - sounds like THUD, blast absorbed by pipe. Dump the waste out of pipe after 10 or so rounds. Clean chamber after each firing to prevent case dents caused by COW crud caught between brass & chamber. Ventilate the space well - don't suck in lead primer fumes.

After all that I check for brass length & turn necks. My favorite is the 6mm AI, I keep about 200 pieces of 6mm AI brass on hand for rodent shooting. Ackey Improved cases are worthy of the effort. A 6mmRem to 6mm AI provides about 10% more case capacity. 87 VMax at just under 3,500 fps. Annealed after fire forming.



I also make .280 Rem cases out of .270 Win using the false shoulder method.

COW fire forming will blow out case necks, so they are nice & concentric. 7mm Mag to .375-.338

 

[436]

.22-250 Rem AI factory loads. By the way what caliber did you choose?

 

[fordracer]

When I fireform brass, I use coffee that came from the coffee maker ( dried out first ) costs nothing. After forming brass in your dies, I anneal the brass making it soft as possible. It moves easier to your new shape.
I use pistol primers and pistol powder, such as Titegroup, Bullseye, in a 25 AL about 10 grains of powder, tamp the coffee in with a rod that fits down the neck of the case. Place a piece of thin paper on top of the case and tamp that in place in the gun and fire. After fireforming anneal the brass again.
Good Luck

 

[Alibiiv]

I know this topic is as broad as the people that do it, but how do you fire form your AI brass?

I've got my 1st AI at the gun smith and will be hopefully fire forming soon. I'm putting my plan together now.

Do you use cream of wheat, bee's wax, loaded ammo?

I've got loaded ammo that I'm hoping to break the barrel in with and retain the brass for later. I'm also looking to fire form new premium brass.

Please include your recipes...

Thanks
HW

I have read up to the most recent reply #8. It would be good to tell us what cartridge your rifle is chambered in. There are numerous methods, as have been described in the previous replies, that can be used when forming brass for a wildcat. I prefer the COW method, but thanks to your thread I'll be trying the "Choc-full-of-nuts" method next. If you've talked with FEENIX I strongly recommend following his suggestions, he will not set you wrong. He is the one who really helped me along when I first started loading for my .270 AI. I've used hydro form dies from Hornady, after forming 10 cases the piston on the die started burring up and became impossible to take apart. I would recommend Whidden hydro form dies if you want to go the hydro form route. For the .270 AI I am using 16.0 grains of Unique in the case first, then fill the case up with COW to where the shoulder junctions with the neck, then fill the rest of the case with rolled up toilet paper. This is a pretty stout load and quite load so don't be surprised when the round goes off. Also I "strongly" recommend that you invest more of your hard earned money, yup that's right this ain't a cheap date!!! After I bought an annealer I found that I would not fire form without annealing my brass first no matter what cartridge your reloading for. I also strongly recommend investing in a good set of dial calipers and some Hornady loc an load comparators to measure shoulder dimensions and COAL as well. Annealing your brass prior to fire forming will give you a better fire form because the brass is softer and you will get a better fire form or hydro form on the first try. If you are using the parent case and have components, don't worry about costs then by all means load up some rounds with a mid-range powder charge and you will get a pretty good fire form with the first firing. For me personally I really do not get a really good formed case until after this first actual firing of a bullet. "If" you are reloading for the .270 AI, I would suggest starting using a powder load one-grain below the maximum load of the .270 WInchester and work you're way up from there. I also would suggest using caution when getting load data recommendations off the internet. Every rifle has its own variables and every rifle reacts to loads differently, so tread carefully with recommendations. For an case annealing I use an Annealeez, but started out with a salt bath process, cost about $120 to get set up. The salt bath system works well, I just didn't like having liquid/melted salt (like 450 degrees hot) around my face and hands. If there's a mistake made with the melted salt the results can be catastrophic. Some may argue that a torch is equally as dangerous, however I believe that a torch is much more forgiving than extremely hot, melted salt. If you do a search on the forum there are plenty of threads referencing annealing. When I started reloading the .270 AI, I figured there would be a learning curve, and there was, so bought some WInchester brass instead of Lapua or Petterson brass because I preferred to destroy inexpensive brass instead of premium brass while learning to fire form. If I we're to go this way again I would only invest bin like 60 pieces of the inexpensive brass to learn my rifle from and then move on to the quality brass. I say this only due to the amount of time and money invested in components put into fire forming. A couple of more pieces of equipment you can spend your hard earned cash on would be a neck turning tool, and either bushing dies or a mandrel die set up for tuning your neck tension. I've never used bushing dies do cannot help you there. Again do more searches on the forum and you'll find lots of information on these processes. There's a bunch of good guys on here with a wealth of information and "experience" who are willing to share and help you through. Most on here are strongly opinionated and can be a real PITA, but you will get some good information related to reloading. I apologize for the long and unorganized dissertation. I'm typing on the iPhone, fat fingers and small device. Good luck with your new adventure. Hope this reply helps you out.

 

[Teekerguy]

if your a brass snob like me I had my smith Taylor my chamber for thicker necks and in my 280AI and I run lapua 30-06 so I put a false shoulder on the brass make sure it's snug when I close the bolt I used a mild 280 load and just make sure you grease the lugs when fire forming

 

[azsugarbear]

Lots of previous threads on LRH on this subject. I use any fast burning powder meant for pistol or shotgun loads. I typically load 8 to 12 grains of powder depending on the size / case capacity of the brass being formed (heavier load for larger brass such as 338 Lapua). Powder in first and then case is filled to top of shoulder or bottom of neck with cornmeal, followed by a piece of cotton ball or TP. Then just load and shoot. The barrel doesn't heat up like it would with full loads and you save on the cost of bullets. If your barrel has a muzzlebrake, be sure to remove it before fireforming this way as the cotton fibers will catch in the gills or holes of the brake and bend/distort/ break and ruin the brake.

 

[just_jon]

I have formed AI cases by shooting factory parent ammo, jamming a medium parent load and COW. All will get you there. My preferred method is COW with a charge of Green Dot equal to 1/3 of a normal parent load and sealed with Ivory soap. I use Green Dot because I have a bunch, but other fast burning shotgun/pistol powders will work. The primary benefit of COW is it doesn't waste rifle powders and bullets bullets and puts virtually no wear on the barrel.

 

[jedimonkey]

For 308 size cases, 10 grains Bullseye, fill to top with corn meal and seal with a thin piece
of cast bullet lube. Do not use loaded rounds because of head space problems.

 

[L.Sherm]

For 308 size cases, 10 grains Bullseye, fill to top with corn meal and seal with a thin piece
of cast bullet lube. Do not use loaded rounds because of head space problems.

If its a properly chambered AI round there can't be head space problems, if you have head space problems your smith screwed up.
As mentioned before it should have a crush fit.