How critical is measuring powder to .01 grains

[Playtimefun]

And I go off whether the rounds sit loaded in the gun safe... being fired at an animal, at a piece if paper OR even a rock out in the middle of a field... I want the most accurate load I can put in it. But at the same time, I have a ton of factory ammo sitting around where I go... I need to go practicing (paper or rocks, etc) so I'll buy this box(s) at the gun show. Then you wind up with both reloads and factory sitting there because you buy another gun.... cause you plan on practicing more with it (shhhhhh the wife still believes this story) lol.

To me... it's all about how anal YOU want to be when you ARE NOT shooting competitions. Again... shooting IPSC matches, guys couldn't believe that I single stage loaded every shell. Just me being me.

I am a die hard fisherman with mega dollars in gear. Used to change all my lines every year. Why??? Cause it stretches and you can't set the hook as well or feel finesse bites as well. Then I came to the realization that while I had been in 2 walleye tournaments in my life (for semi fun competition and we did not bad) for fishing at my cottage... there wasn't a hill of beans difference in putting new line on or not. Now 1 old rod sitting out there hadn't been changed in about 10 years and I took it out and the line would spool due to the memory. So for reloading side... it's like measuring to 0.01 grains versus .1 grains versus just using a powder throw and not even checking it (which I have seen and heard of guys doing)

Being anal on reloading is fun but maybe not necessary but still we do it.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Now that it has gone 8 pages, let me ask if .1 grain of powder makes more of a notable difference in a compressed powder charge or less of a notable difference?

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

DT throws his charge weights for 600 yd BR competition and look at all the wins he has!

Personally we weigh every time to the most precise load. First used a Tri Beam, then a RCBS 1500 for the charge then on a Gem Pro and Dandy Trickler. Now a V-4 and A&d FX 120i.
It all started with Brass Prep, powder weight, bullet seating. Spend a lot of time and energy just to construct one cartridge. BUT most of our rifles shoot same hole. Like working constructing cartridges in the reloading room. Great hobby and keeps me happy and sane!
If you are into competition the group size matters at 1K. If you are hunting you do have a bigger area for the bullet to hit.

Loading to 0.10 of a gr is better than 01.0 gr.
Weighing to 0.01gr is getting extreme then everything else matters (sort every component by weight & size) and you have to know the volume of each case (makes a difference for sure) then the bullet weight, measure the ogive of the bullet, seating depth, neck tension, ect.
Unless you watch a lot of TV with the "Shooter" "Accountant" and plan on shooting 2 miles to hit a Cantaloupe (or can of Campbells Soup). just try to stick with 0.1 grs for a consistent load.

 

[C-130 Dude]

In the forum the accuracy nodes in a ladder test range between 1 to 2 grains With accuracy stable in that range. If that node is between 60 to 61 grains, and you decide to load 60.5 grains why is loading to .01 grains critical?

Generally it's not. My thought on this is that, " the smaller the cartridge, the finer the powder measurement". Larger cartridges can more easily absorb small variations in powder throw. But small cartridges with small powder weights can not. A variance of 1 or 2 tenths makes a lot more difference in a pistol round than a rifle round. Generally speaking. That's NOT my ocd speaking out here. My ocd categorically denies this.

 

[ARlife4me]

Whether it be smokeless or coffee grains.......fill it to the rim with Brim

 

[Playtimefun]

Whether it be smokeless or coffee grains.......fill it to the rim with Brim

CANNOT AGREE MORE!!!

Also... there is no replacement for displacement unless you put turbos or a supercharger on it!!!!

 

[emp1953]

In the forum the accuracy nodes in a ladder test range between 1 to 2 grains With accuracy stable in that range. If that node is between 60 to 61 grains, and you decide to load 60.5 grains why is loading to .01 grains critical?

My breathing too close to the scale will cause variations greater than that. I think its a windmill not worthy of chasing.

 

[marchboom]

Want to really improve your groups, especially at longer distances? Learn to read the wind.

 

[Darkker]

Now that it has gone 8 pages, let me ask if .1 grain of powder makes more of a notable difference in a compressed powder charge or less of a notable difference?

The honest answer, is that it depends.

There's a couple things to remember about gunpowder, which so very few people are interested enough to learn (not a judgement, BTW).

1) Burning rates don't meant what you think, and are NOT linear. Burning rates found in any manual or online table, are predominantly calculated on rather silly conditions. A standard test rifle(for burning rates) is an extremely heavy/strong thing, think more like an artillery cannon. They base everything off an unstated, "standard" cartridge. Norma one said they use the 308, with 147gr ball projectiles and a 40-something grain charge of a powder i can't recall without looking. So, that exact combination is loaded with every single powder, except those which would become an explosion (estimated); and are arranged on the table in relative burning speed. The silly part comes in because everyone in the actual powder industry knows, that volume changes burning rates; but the burning rate charts are fixed volume.... Also when you are dealing with progressive burning powders, burning curves can change radically with volume and operational pressure. So it's a bit like claiming to know how fast a car is going, because of how loud the muffler is.

2) Extruded powder is designed to have it's burning rates controlled by volume/geometry. Say you had a few kennels which had more nitro(greater BD), they would have more surface area(perforations) and or be longer, to slow down the burning speed of the increased nitro. Naturally the inverse is also the case. Despite the marketing wank by some companies, any commercial ammo plant of serious capacity, loads by volume; not weight. Pull some GMM apart sometime...

3) Every powder, for a given application; has it's stable pressure range. Inside of that range, it behaves predictably with increases and decreases of pressure. Beyond that range (often in compressed loads), unexpected pressure excursions happen. Anyone who hasn't, really needs to spend some time reading the info SAAMI publishes about this, and how much a standard deviation in pressure is. It's why the have more pressures than just the MAP spec'd for cartridges. Some compressed loads are fine for pressure stability, some are not.

Cheers

 

[C-130 Dude]

The honest answer, is that it depends.

There's a couple things to remember about gunpowder, which so very few people are interested enough to learn (not a judgement, BTW).

1) Burning rates don't meant what you think, and are NOT linear. Burning rates found in any manual or online table, are predominantly calculated on rather silly conditions. A standard test rifle(for burning rates) is an extremely heavy/strong thing, think more like an artillery cannon. They base everything off an unstated, "standard" cartridge. Norma one said they use the 308, with 147gr ball projectiles and a 40-something grain charge of a powder i can't recall without looking. So, that exact combination is loaded with every single powder, except those which would become an explosion (estimated); and are arranged on the table in relative burning speed. The silly part comes in because everyone in the actual powder industry knows, that volume changes burning rates; but the burning rate charts are fixed volume.... Also when you are dealing with progressive burning powders, burning curves can change radically with volume and operational pressure. So it's a bit like claiming to know how fast a car is going, because of how loud the muffler is.

2) Extruded powder is designed to have it's burning rates controlled by volume/geometry. Say you had a few kennels which had more nitro(greater BD), they would have more surface area(perforations) and or be longer, to slow down the burning speed of the increased nitro. Naturally the inverse is also the case. Despite the marketing wank by some companies, any commercial ammo plant of serious capacity, loads by volume; not weight. Pull some GMM apart sometime...

3) Every powder, for a given application; has it's stable pressure range. Inside of that range, it behaves predictably with increases and decreases of pressure. Beyond that range (often in compressed loads), unexpected pressure excursions happen. Anyone who hasn't, really needs to spend some time reading the info SAAMI publishes about this, and how much a standard deviation in pressure is. It's why the have more pressures than just the MAP spec'd for cartridges. Some compressed loads are fine for pressure stability, some are not.

Cheers

Just so I understand you, is this why many people state that, "the most accurate loads are achieved at something less than maximum powder charge"? (Volume vs pressure) If so, having a bit of "unused volume" in a case would apply here. Why do reloaders then attempt to fill cases to near capacity? For shear velocity purposes?

 

[Darkker]

Just so I understand you, is this why many people state that, "the most accurate loads are achieved at something less than maximum powder charge"? (Volume vs pressure) If so, having a bit of "unused volume" in a case would apply here. Why do reloaders then attempt to fill cases to near capacity? For shear velocity purposes?

I assume the 'less than max' comment is about accuracy nodes. It took me a while to learn, but now I can find multiple accurate nodes between min and max. Not always the accuracy I dream of; but notably more accurate than other loads.

And yes, the stuffing of a case, is about velocity.
Lots of folks will read a manual where max is X grains of this powder, at some pressure below the cartridge MAP. So they think the loads were "lawyered" and because they have extra capacity, can load higher without going beyond cartridge pressure. If they'd read the SAAMI info about standard deviation....

Cheers

 

[C-130 Dude]

I assume the 'less than max' comment is about accuracy nodes. It took me a while to learn, but now I can find multiple accurate nodes between min and max. Not always the accuracy I dream of; but notably more accurate than other loads.

And yes, the stuffing of a case, is about velocity.
Lots of folks will read a manual where max is X grains of this powder, at some pressure below the cartridge MAP. So they think the loads were "lawyered" and because they have extra capacity, can load higher without going beyond cartridge pressure. If they'd read the SAAMI info about standard deviation....

Cheers

Not about lawyers at all. I do understand your meaning. Thanks for the info.

 

[BrentM]

Actually, not all of them at least are.
Go to a varmint class match sometime where many of them will reload the same cases between relays.
Everything is important, but sorting cases is something most of us never even consider.

I used to do that plus: weight sorting bullets, sorting bullets by bearing surface, case sorting by weight, case sorting by volume, using a concencriticy gauge on every loaded cartridge and fixing run out, and finally....... bought a fx120 to ensure I was getting .01-.02 grain weights.

I am better now, doctor said my brain function will be back to full normal once I stop worrying everything and focus on only what matters at my level.

 

[hicountry1]

I use the rcbs charger master lite

Have multiple rifles that shoot half moa using it to throw charges.

One thing I do, is I have bullets of known weight that I use to check it during a long reloading session.....40.1, 75.1 and 140 grain bullets.

After a short warm up period...few mins, it really never reads them incorrectly.

After every 10 mins or so, I throw them on just to check...always dead nuts on.

Last night I was loading 300win rounds, so I just used the 75.1 bullet to check, as I was loading around 78 grain loads.

Easy sanity check on an electronic scale or thrower.