How critical is measuring powder to .01 grains

[Playtimefun]

I think it's all a case of how anal you want to be. Back when I was shooting IPSC, I would single stage reload 400 shells over 2 or 3 nights for a weekend shoot. Weighing every load to 0.1 grams on a RCBS balance scale that I always checked and calibrated for a load. Friends laughed their asses off at me, but I never had a missfire or double powder charge ever and other guys of course did.

I think it's a personality thing. I overkill everything I generally do (engineer by trade). As an example I built a welding/work table and when the wife asked if she could stand on it to reach the shelf above, I stood back and realized that I could park a truck on it let alone have someone sit on it.

Unfortunately, I don't have an electronic trickle charge scale (I want one but when the prices went stupid, I had missed out), but all I would use it for is to put it on my good old scale anyways. So the old power throw works just find for me along with a 40 year old RCBS powder trickler and a tiny pointed spoon for taking out extra.

Now I don't competitively shoot, but I practice and shoot long range because even though I am set up for a 1000 yard shot, I would much sooner sneak up within 100 yards (or whatever) and pug it down. But if I can't... I want to be able to pull the trigger on a load that I know will hit where I point... IF... I do my part and sometimes that's a big question depending upon how much practicing I'm doing lol.

 

[Playtimefun]

Why wouldn't you be just as OCD about hunting charge weight as Bench Rest or PRS ammo charge weight? You should want the best repeatable accuracy from both rounds. If not why reload....

I agree. To me there is no difference between reloading a target load and a hunting load.

Really the only 2 differences should be are you downloading to hit the magical sweet spot of load velocity standard deviations (where you might be at the very low end of velocity for a cartridge) and the bullet. As an example I won't hunt with a berger bullet. Fantastically accurate but a friend used to use them and every animal he hit wound up having shrapnel through out it. The animal always went down instantly but lots of ruined meat. So if your trophy hunting on a trip and not eating/taking the meat home... then use them. But for me as a meat hunter, no thanks. I'll give up a small accuracy edge. Now on the flip side... if a gun won't shoot a certain bullet then I am looking for alternatives.

 

[ImBillT]

For most rifle cartridges it's not.

The below groups were shot by loading to +- .1gr on a scale that isn't good enough to trust it to .1gr. The loads could easily have been +-.2gr if measured on a better scale. All 3-shot groups at 200yds.

 

[lowdowndirtybugger]

In my opinion this all depends on just exactly what you are doing and what is an acceptable outcome.
Most people here chase the smallest SD and es possible. Why?
Because even a difference of 5 fps can be a big difference at extended ranges.
If one is trying to eliminate every variable possible than this is one variable that can be taken off the table with ease.
When we look at probably the most popular cartridge the 6.5 need more we can show where even .02 may make a difference.
Let's say the mean velocity of said 6.5 is 2800 fps and it takes 40 grains to get there. That means every grain is responsible for 70 fps. And every 10th equals 7 fps
The difference at 1 mile for 7 fps at my elevation is .6 minutes in elevation (with my load) between just one 10th grain deviation. Measuring to the hundredth takes this out of the equation. This is one of many things people do to get single digit es and as small as possible sd

Most loading scales also at plus or minus on top of that meaning that .1 could be .025 or .175 before the reading changes.
This can cause .2 deviation between loads easily. If your tightest powder measure is .2 deviation that you probably won't ever see single digit es or SD and your down range vertical dispersion will probably show it.

There are plenty of scales now days that will weigh a charge within .02 in 10 to 15 seconds.

If you are shooting elr charge weight is definitely within bounds for worry especially with low volume cartridges
If shooting 1k and you're really not worried about vertical dispersion much than a 10th would probably be just fine

 

[ImBillT]

.
When we look at probably the most popular cartridge the 6.5 need more we can show where even .02 may make a difference.

Can you show where that's been proven? I don't believe that 100 shots loaded to .02gr compared to 100 shots loaded to .1gr would show a statistically significant difference in SD/ES. I've had single digit SDs loading to +- .1gr over and over. The idea that going to .02gr is actually going to improve my results when I'm already getting results as good as anyone else claims doesn't make any sense to me.

By all means, if your scale is that accurate and will dispense it for you to that level of precision, I don't know why you wouldn't do it. For the person who is currently not able to weigh powder to that level of precision, I don't believe it's important and I'm not aware of any evidence that suggests you can tell the difference between .1gr and .02gr, even over a chronograph.

I would like to know where the line actually is. Is it .2gr? .4gr? .15gr? I don't know. I only know that I get good enough results at +- .1gr to suggest that getting any more precise is not going to make a noticeable difference.

 

[Fatcatbuster]

Try sticking a 22 Hornet case with .3 over...I . learned how to remove a stuck case by putting it in a freezer overnight to remove it. I pay attention now.

 

[Playtimefun]

Actually... now that I'm thinking of it... I'm trying to go as accurate as I possible can on every load. The hardest part now is that I needing reading glasses to see anything.

 

[Mike Matteson]

I think it's all a case of how anal you want to be. Back when I was shooting IPSC, I would single stage reload 400 shells over 2 or 3 nights for a weekend shoot. Weighing every load to 0.1 grams on a RCBS balance scale that I always checked and calibrated for a load. Friends laughed their asses off at me, but I never had a missfire or double powder charge ever and other guys of course did.

I think it's a personality thing. I overkill everything I generally do (engineer by trade). As an example I built a welding/work table and when the wife asked if she could stand on it to reach the shelf above, I stood back and realized that I could park a truck on it let alone have someone sit on it.

Unfortunately, I don't have an electronic trickle charge scale (I want one but when the prices went stupid, I had missed out), but all I would use it for is to put it on my good old scale anyways. So the old power throw works just find for me along with a 40 year old RCBS powder trickler and a tiny pointed spoon for taking out extra.

Now I don't competitively shoot, but I practice and shoot long range because even though I am set up for a 1000 yard shot, I would much sooner sneak up within 100 yards (or whatever) and pug it down. But if I can't... I want to be able to pull the trigger on a load that I know will hit where I point... IF... I do my part and sometimes that's a big question depending upon how much practicing I'm doing lol.

I powder scale all my loads. I tried the electric powder measures. Found that most were off. Gave away a couple of them. I believe in getting my powder load as close as the scale will get me.
i have a new $1000.00 one now. I have put it to use yet. I have a feeling I will back to a manual scale again. It doesn't take that much if you have a system to do your cases.

 

[Tactical45]

Just here for the reading and learning, please keep it coming. Thanks.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

Mr. Lee , for me it is 1/10 of a grain for hunting bullets, and exact weight for target bullets. Example: The 115 Grn. Berger Flat Base Targets for my .308 . I have yellow Berger bullet boxes labeled 114.8 ;114.9 115.0 and 115.1. I use those for Bullseye Target shooting in my .308 Target rifle. This three-shot groupe measured .221 Center hole to center hole. from a factory stock Savage Rifle, untuned. unbeded. As per the rules of that "Score " match. The second photo is a three shot groupe that was a .162 from Center hole to Center hole. Last year I was 73 Years old and I could never achieve that degree of precision , from a rifle out of the box, without very careful handloading. It's amazing what you can do just being fussy!!! BUT as you can see they are not touching the dot INSIDE the Bulls eye, so I did not win anything. Maybe Ill take up Golf or something easy!!!!

 

[Playtimefun]

So just playing devils advocate... why wouldn't a person take the same time and precision to develop your hunting load?

Now I'll throw something that a buddy and I do... we go to the range and we have various little competitions... closest to the target tack on top left corner... the number 9 for 9 ring on bottom left target... etc etc. The looser has to buy chocolate for the others wife!!! I'll tell you right now, all I have to do is say I'm going to the basement to work on a load for the range on Saturday and it's like go do it!!! I need a better scope for the range. Better order one!!!

 

[Capt. D]

I'm in the 1/10 grain camp. I've seen a tenth make a difference but not less than that in my experience with the equipment I have. There are other things that make a difference from form to seating depth and everything in between, but powder charge is where I'll make my 1st adjustment. I think that I have my brass prep where it needs to be as consistent as I can. Bottom line is; if you think it might help, test it. Then if you think it does help, do it. I'm sure I probably do things that others don't and I am sure I don't do things that others do. I'm always trying to learn and will often times try something that I've heard or read to make things better but often times I can't tell the difference but it's an excuse to head to the range.
The one thing that has been the most help to me is advice I got from a bench rest shooter friend of mine is reading the groups.
Assuming no shooter errors or mechanical problems:
Vertical Group, barrel is asking for more powder.
Horizontal Group, seating depth issue or needs slight powder increase.
Diagonal Group, adjust neck tension.
Double Grouping, load is too hot. Reduce powder charge or change primer.
Round Group, barrel is happy.

 

[lowdowndirtybugger]

Can you show where that's been proven? I don't believe that 100 shots loaded to .02gr compared to 100 shots loaded to .1gr would show a statistically significant difference in SD/ES. I've had single digit SDs loading to +- .1gr over and over. The idea that going to .02gr is actually going to improve my results when I'm already getting results as good as anyone else claims doesn't make any sense to me.

By all means, if your scale is that accurate and will dispense it for you to that level of precision, I don't know why you wouldn't do it. For the person who is currently not able to weigh powder to that level of precision, I don't believe it's important and I'm not aware of any evidence that suggests you can tell the difference between .1gr and .02gr, even over a chronograph.

I would like to know where the line actually is. Is it .2gr? .4gr? .15gr? I don't know. I only know that I get good enough results at +- .1gr to suggest that getting any more precise is not going to make a noticeable difference.

I showed you the basic math. I explained where and why it can make a difference. Another on here showed where it actually matters in closer range patterning.
If you choose to sloppily throw loads that's your own business.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything

 

[Jrainey]

Gempro 250 has 0.02 accuracy.

GemPro 250 Digital Scale Review within AccurateShooter.com

I use one to double check the occasional charge.

Is this scale even available anymore?