How close is the cosign rule in slope shooting?

[Black Tail Hunter]

OMG, doesn't anyone know how to shoot anymore without all this rule, adjustable scope, range finder, wind speed indicator & computer crap????????

For those of us who haven't risen to your level of supreme excellence, equipment or methods to calculate the correct ballistic solution to ensure a humane kill are a must. Sorry if it is an inconvenience for you to have to read about it.

 

[dfrahm]

So here's some real world experience on finding elk in parks. They usually come out of the timber very close to where they went in. Have you sat on your vantage point early in the morning and watched where they went into the timber? If it was me, and I've done it several times, I would go into the park 100 or so yards from where they went in either 'in' the park or at an edge (hopefully with the sun at your back in either case) an hour or two before you have seen them appear and set up there. Sorry this doesn't address the issues you brought up - just a suggestion on hunting elk. Good luck!

 

[BrentM]

slope angle from the dial up is the way to go. The old school method is fine for shorter distance and less slope but not correct or accurate in the end for long range precision.

I've played with the fist method for determining angle, shot angles with a cosine indicator, use my phone's slope indicator etc. You can get pretty close with practice. In the end an app like AB or shooter do exactly what you need for outputs. My sig 2400 does everything with the press of button. If you use a chart and can compute numbers you can do wind and slope in a just a few seconds. Just takes a little practice. It's a good thing to know if electronics die.

 

[TexasSportsman]

I have a Leupold rangefinder. It takes into consideration up and down angles and displays it in degrees when displaying the distance.

 

[WiscGunner]

OMG, doesn't anyone know how to shoot anymore without all this rule, adjustable scope, range finder, wind speed indicator & computer crap????????

Everyone enjoys hunting and shooting from different perspectives.

Sextants and slide rules are still useful but I don't see many people using them anymore because there are much more accurate and faster methods available. Perhaps mathematics fans want to do long form calculations to add to the hunting experience. Just not my cup of tea.

Kentucky windage, imho, is not appropriate for angled long distance shooting but this is not an ethics debate or an archery discussion. I suppose if we put on our SHTF hat we should all bring protractors to back up our cosign indicators or Tubb DRi's mounted on our rifles. Again, this might add an additional factor of fun and adventure to the hunt for some people, just not for me.

With the advent of computers we are afforded the ability to make increasingly more accurate and flexible data cards for our rifles. "Playing" with these calculators at home before a hunt like a kid with an abacus means we are more familiar with our "dope" and can create "rules-of-thumb" for distance, wind, slope, etc for our rifles setups.
ie: my 7ss is a 9mph gun (500yrds is .5mil @9mph) Elevation is distance squared to 500yrds (400yrds: 4x4=16 Elevation is 1.6mil). I know these things because I play with my computer and verify on range.


Computers shouldn't be feared or ruled out but utilized and familiarized in advance to make the odds of success go up. Computers quickly help us find out what mph our setup is, or a simple drop formula for medium ranges, etc.

Personally I see no point in having an entire weather station of instruments attached to my rifle when a pocket computer does it cleaner, more accurately and faster but I will never tell someone else what they can/can't do. If some amateur meteorologis wants to combine his hobby of hunting, weather and astronomy in the field, more power to them. Me, I use a computer and blue painters tape and that works for me. Your milage may vary. Do what makes the hunting experience good for you.

 

[Gone Ballistic]

OMG, doesn't anyone know how to shoot anymore without all this rule, adjustable scope, range finder, wind speed indicator & computer crap????????

What is your reason for being on this site? If you're one of those hunters who just picks a spot to hold over, while shooting at an animal without using applied ballistics, you are either:1. Lucky to kill an animal. 2. Wounding and crippling animals. 3. Burning up ammunition and going home empty handed. Regardless, shooting at long range at any animal should never be an estimation. It should always be a calculated shot based on applied ballistics with lots of practice shooting at various long ranges before ever shooting an animal. If you are not willing to learn how to do this then, please limit your shots to under 300 yards.

 

[Warbird2006]

If your the Kentucky windage guessing guy and think rangefinders, cosines and adjustable scopes are stupid, why are you even on this page

ACTUALLY ITS AN ART. If you would be in the bush without power for an extended period of time, all you gadget guys would be fu*cked. So in my opinion its rude to ask the guy what is he doing here. Maybe be nice and you can learn something. I've met a couple of great army snipers at the range in Bute, MT. They had no gadets, no computers, and reading the wind you can't even imagine. So, when you can do that, you can comment.

 

[Warbird2006]

What is your reason for being on this site? If you're one of those hunters who just picks a spot to hold over, while shooting at an animal without using applied ballistics, you are either:1. Lucky to kill an animal. 2. Wounding and crippling animals. 3. Burning up ammunition and going home empty handed. Regardless, shooting at long range at any animal should never be an estimation. It should always be a calculated shot based on applied ballistics with lots of practice shooting at various long ranges before ever shooting an animal. If you are not willing to learn how to do this then, please limit your shots to under 300 yards.

Looks like you are another one of those Olympic winners who need a gadget to take cr*ap, hahahaha.

 

[Black Tail Hunter]

ACTUALLY ITS AN ART. If you would be in the bush without power for an extended period of time, all you gadget guys would be fu*cked. So in my opinion its rude to ask the guy what is he doing here. Maybe be nice and you can learn something. I've met a couple of great army snipers at the range in Bute, MT. They had no gadets, no computers, and reading the wind you can't even imagine. So, when you can do that, you can comment.

I find your statement regarding being lights out for an extended period of time abjectly false. For many shooting long range is a choice, not a requirement. I have taken many more animals at well under 100 yards stalking the timber than I have shooting at extended ranges. All my largest game have been taken at close range. I shoot long range for a different experience, not necessity. As for your Army sniper friends, they didn't need gadgets or computers because they had something far more valuable. Training. Not just any training, but training from the finest military in the world, which the majority of us will never receive. Kudos to their ability, but it took a lot of rounds and range time to get them there.

In regards to bein nice and learning something, the OP wasn't taking an opinion poll regarding the usefulness of cosine indicators. He was trying to confirm a method to ensure success of his hunt. Snarky remarks about peoples methods of finding success isnt a common way to get treated nicely.

 

[BrentM]

ACTUALLY ITS AN ART. If you would be in the bush without power for an extended period of time, all you gadget guys would be fu*cked. So in my opinion its rude to ask the guy what is he doing here. Maybe be nice and you can learn something. I've met a couple of great army snipers at the range in Bute, MT. They had no gadets, no computers, and reading the wind you can't even imagine. So, when you can do that, you can comment.

This is not accurate or true. Snipers use the latest gadgets and they do train in case of gadget failure but lives are the line. Shooting a range isn't a place where gadgets are overly needed or desired. A data book or even data in your head is enough to bang steel from a bench. There is very little people have in common with snipers so let's move past the bs or comparing a general long range hunter/shooter from a military sniper TEAM.

Since the beginning of long range data recording has been the norm. Data books recording all the intel you needed to place shots within relatively decent accuracy. It was developed using a fairly narrow base of cartridges and shared the same spec rifle to rifle. Today your data is at your finger tips and extremely accurate IF you know how to use it. You can pull a 223 to a 338 out of the truck and dial in shots with excellent accuracy. Enter the field environment of unknown situations, ranges, wind flow, barometric pressure changes, slopes, and unknow target sizes you have a need for accurate data. Top shooters all over the world use gadgets to get data. Temp, wind speed, barometric pressure or DA, drop data. Does that mean they'd be "f*cked" if their gadgets failed....no it does not. It means they use the best tech they can to make accurate shots first. Second, if they needed to use drop charts etc or dope book, they can. You'd be surprised how many people on this site can get by just fine in the event of electronic gadget failure. Don't assume they are not trained, practiced, or capable just because they prefer the most advanced tech available.

 

[Warbird2006]

I find your statement regarding being lights out for an extended period of time abjectly false. For many shooting long range is a choice, not a requirement. I have taken many more animals at well under 100 yards stalking the timber than I have shooting at extended ranges. All my largest game have been taken at close range. I shoot long range for a different experience, not necessity. As for your Army sniper friends, they didn't need gadgets or computers because they had something far more valuable. Training. Not just any training, but training from the finest military in the world, which the majority of us will never receive. Kudos to their ability, but it took a lot of rounds and range time to get them there.

In regards to bein nice and learning something, the OP wasn't taking an opinion poll regarding the usefulness of cosine indicators. He was trying to confirm a method to ensure success of his hunt. Snarky remarks about peoples methods of finding success isnt a common way to get treated nicely.

Oh, so you mean the use of gadgets is because of lack of training, that's a new one. But thanks for an honest answer.

 

[newtonian]

I have read and am carefully considering all of the above. I have killed 40 elk, 10 of them with a bow. Only 3 of those were beyond 300 yards and they were one shot kills. With your help, I will keep it that way. Thanks to all.
Jim

 

[BrentM]

Oh, so you mean the use of gadgets is because of lack of training, that's a new one. But thanks for an honest answer.

Use of a cosine indicator and methods to use the info is a form of training. All of the stuff being discussed in here is training to a degree or another. Usually we just call it sharing info or experiences. Why is this so important to you? Why do you give a **** if someone chooses to use tech or not?

 

[Bob Wright]

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