Homogenous copper bullets can be inhumane

[RockyMtnMT]

Not at all trying to stir the pot or argue, but I'm curious…. Have you actually read the works of Mr. Foster? I don't at all believe him to be a "self important and self proclaimed expert" based on him simply killing lots of animals. The man has thoroughly tested more bullets, without a strict bias, than anyone else I know and posted all his findings on his webpage and/or his published works. His work and experience has created his viewpoint. He's not just some guy out there with his own opinions. he doesn't sell any bullets and isn't affiliated with any bullet manufacturer.

All that said, I completely agree that knowledge is power and no one should take just one persons word on anything. There's tons of info out there to help you on your quest for success. I implore anyone and everyone to seek it out and empower themselves with it.

I've had direct dealing with him here on lrh and read some of his stuff. That is my opinion after doing so.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Yes Sir! I am glad you chimed in; your last statement is spot on. This continuous learner welcomes and appreciates your input. Wishing you and Brian continued success with Hammer Bullets.

Ed

As a continuous learner I would very much like to hear your assessment of the Shooting Holes in the Wounding Theory physics paper after you have read it. I would like to hear how it relates to your thoughts on how a bullet kills. You have the ear of a lot of guys here that I am sure would like to hear your opinion as well.

 

[Petey308]

I've had direct dealing with him here on lrh and read some of his stuff. That is my opinion after doing so.

Fair enough. I care not to dive any deeper into that either. Good luck with your business, sir!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Not at all trying to stir the pot or argue, but I'm curious…. Have you actually read the works of Mr. Foster? I don't at all believe him to be a "self important and self proclaimed expert" based on him simply killing lots of animals. The man has thoroughly tested more bullets, without a strict bias, than anyone else I know and posted all his findings on his webpage and/or his published works. His work and experience has created his viewpoint. He's not just some guy out there with his own opinions. he doesn't sell any bullets and isn't affiliated with any bullet manufacturer.

All that said, I completely agree that knowledge is power and no one should take just one persons word on anything. There's tons of info out there to help you on your quest for success. I implore anyone and everyone to seek it out and empower themselves with it.

I should add to that. Anyone that makes blanket statements based on opinion without actually using the product that they are disparaging, is a self proclaimed expert. For that matter in my opinion anyone that proclaims them selves to be an expert in terminal performance and ballistic performance is not.

 

[Petey308]

I should add to that. Anyone that makes blanket statements based on opinion without actually using the product that they are disparaging, is a self proclaimed expert. For that matter in my opinion anyone that proclaims them selves to be an expert in terminal performance and ballistic performance is not.

To be fair, the definition of expert is: "a person who has a comprehensive and authoritative knowledge of or skill in a particular area".

So you don't have to know all there possibly is to know about something to be considered an expert, but I still tend to agree with you. I refrain from calling myself an expert on anything.

 

[FEENIX]

As a continuous learner I would very much like to hear your assessment of the Shooting Holes in the Wounding Theory physics paper after you have read it. I would like to hear how it relates to your thoughts on how a bullet kills. You have the ear of a lot of guys here that I am sure would like to hear your opinion as well.

I will read it when I get home.

 

[SnakeRiverEric]

Seems to be a lot of interest recently here on copper bullets. This article is an older one, I believe I read that at least 5 years ago.
I have been using the various copper bullets on the market for past 5-10 year (not exclusively). It is very good to see so many
new companies pushing innovation in this market. They have come a long way.
I have been testing a new companies bullets passed 2 years and I think you all will soon get a chance to try their products.
Great to see all the interest!

 

[Mark37082]

I am all for independent testing of products that I am interested in. The more the better. I am absolutely against broad rushing summaries unless they have clear disclaimers on what they did or did not test. Results typically speak for themselves. Given the significant number of members that have great results with bullets such as Hammers, I feel comfortable giving them a try. Choices are one of our most significant blessings. However, this has come under attack by supply chain issues and ratcheting up prices in our hobby recently. I still like my cup and core bullets if I can find them, but I really like being able to place an order and actually receive them in a reasonable time frame. Thank you for that, Hammer.

 

[cornshank]

Not at all trying to stir the pot or argue, but I'm curious…. Have you actually read the works of Mr. Foster? I don't at all believe him to be a "self important and self proclaimed expert" based on him simply killing lots of animals. The man has thoroughly tested more bullets, without a strict bias, than anyone else I know and posted all his findings on his webpage and/or his published works. His work and experience has created his viewpoint. He's not just some guy out there with his own opinions. he doesn't sell any bullets and isn't affiliated with any bullet manufacturer. For his experience and published work, he's the most humble person I know on the matter. If you can't post about yourself and accomplishments as a form of credentials and credibility, what else would you use? If anyone is to take you seriously, you need to have some sort of credibility, right?

All that said, I completely agree that knowledge is power and no one should take just one persons word on anything. There's tons of info out there to help you on your quest for success. I implore anyone and everyone to seek it out and empower themselves with it.

I agree

 

[can1010]

my opinion is there is two ways to kill an animal, you can blow up the insides or you can bleed them. At short to mid range any expanding bullet ran at an acceptable velocity will blow up the internals the key is long range that is where you go from blow up to bleeding and with todays trend to smaller, lighter recoiling rounds the difference becomes more pronounced. cup and core have a better ability to blow up insides where monos even if they shed petals are more of a bleeding kill with less trauma. While both ways are effective ways to kill the one thing in the article was how long it took to die and that got overlooked by too many people.

if you shoot water jugs close they all explode and drain water fast but now at long range is where you see a difference one has large cracks and drain quickly while one has holes and drains much slower and while both drained one took longer, and you can make the comparison to time to die

 

[Muddyboots]

So everyones shorts are in a wad. Over what? Self acclaimed expert that, wrote an opinion, circa 2016, IMO poorly researched in copper bullets even during that timeline.

First the term "homogenous": of uniform structure or composition throughout. Really?

Foster alleged copper bullets are all the same chemical composition or alloy. Really? IMO Anybody that claims his level of expertise absolutely knows this is a blatant and deliberate statement of misinformation. The whole concept of "copper" bullets unique performance is design by structure, velocity and alloy. The author knows that based by his self acclaimed expertise but yet chose to ignore the basic knowledge of bullet construction.

Furthermore, Dangerous Game solids are just that, solids with minimal expansion designed for penetration first. So is this use inhumane? To whom? Animal or a dead hunter that uses anything else? Where is that point of discussion?

The rash and irresponsible use of flame thrower words was intentional without thought or consequences.

So virtually everyone on LRH that has shot copper knows this shotgun statement is egregiously inaccurate and .

Its unfortunate the author has a platform for this , but this is the Tic Toc world we live in. I have seen 3 kills this year that frankly no cup and core had done for me in last 50+ years of hunting.

So what am I going to do? Absolutely nothing, other than post counter opinion that is based upon my experiences of 50+ years of "kills" that I post mortem even when I was 21 years old. Am I an expert? Nope just practical and and have a really good nose for . Smell is smell no matter how you define it. Mt 0.02.

 

[ButterBean]

So everyones shorts are in a wad. Over what? Self acclaimed expert that, wrote an opinion, circa 2016, IMO poorly researched in copper bullets even during that timeline.

First the term "homogenous": of uniform structure or composition throughout. Really?

Foster alleged copper bullets are all the same chemical composition or alloy. Really? IMO Anybody that claims his level of expertise absolutely knows this is a blatant and deliberate statement of misinformation. The whole concept of "copper" bullets unique performance is design by structure, velocity and alloy. The author knows that based by his self acclaimed expertise but yet chose to ignore the basic knowledge of bullet construction.

Furthermore, Dangerous Game solids are just that, solids with minimal expansion designed for penetration first. So is this use inhumane? To whom? Animal or a dead hunter that uses anything else? Where is that point of discussion?

The rash and irresponsible use of flame thrower words was intentional without thought or consequences.

So virtually everyone on LRH that has shot copper knows this shotgun statement is egregiously inaccurate and .

Its unfortunate the author has a platform for this , but this is the Tic Toc world we live in. I have seen 3 kills this year that frankly no cup and core had done for me in last 50+ years of hunting.

So what am I going to do? Absolutely nothing, other than post counter opinion that is based upon my experiences of 50+ years of "kills" that I post mortem even when I was 21 years old. Am I an expert? Nope just practical and and have a really good nose for . Smell is smell no matter how you define it. Mt 0.02.

Some body give that man a Reverend

 

[FEENIX]

This is why "I" hardly give opinions because everybody has one and we all know what that means (per Callahan's definition).

 

[HARPERC]

With that said we thought if we just purchased the most pure copper available it would make the perfect bullet for hunting. Well, it didn't work that way. If we had known we would have never started this business. We were in to deep at this point with a cnc lathe set up in my garage, that we couldn't afford, and we had to find a raw material that would work. We literally bought thousands of pounds of copper at full price and recycled at less than half price trying to find a copper that would do what we expected throughout the range of velocity required for hunting. bias and emotions. By the grace of God we found the copper that we use now. It changed everything. We now had a copper that would perform at high or low velocity, predictably, the way we wanted. We have to continually monitor or copper to make sure that it meets our needed formula to work properly as a bullet.

It was that scrap pile that persuaded me to try mono's again. It would have been easy, and tempting to turn it into lesser quality bullets.

All mono's are not created equal.