Homogenous copper bullets can be inhumane

[Hard rock]

The "ethics" rule started on this site for Long range hunting purposes. People would flame guys for shooting animals at "X" amount of yardage.

I can see this discussion being a never ending one , because of all the variables , cal choice , velocity ,distance , game species , etc ,etc how many pages ? I will be checking in and reading this post . I thought not giving a animal lead poisoning was a good thing all kidding aside It will be interesting

 

[Deleted member 115360]

HFL

 

[cornshank]

I have read a lot of this guys research ,he puts work in on the subject.
I also have been doing research on the effects of Nosler bullets on deer and elk ,for most of my adult life . I have found spectacular results, with them.
I think I will wait until I am forced ,to start researching a new bullet type .

 

[DoneNOut]

HFL

X2

 

[RockyMtnMT]

The blanket statements made in this article are simply emotional and uninformed, made by a self important, self proclaimed expert.

I can't speak for other copper or mono bullet manufacturers, but as far as we are concerned, terminal performance is by far the most important reason we got into making bullets. We at Hammer Bullets will never sacrifice terminal performance for anything. Not bc, not price, not production capacity, not anything.

Prior to making bullets Brian and I were those weird guys at the range catching bullets in water jugs to see what they did. Our quest for a better bullet that would make our animals nice and dead without blowing them to pieces lead us to copper bullets. We saw much less meat damage with copper vs lead. We used quite a few diff copper bullets for hunting. In the end they all had some issue that we didn't like. We wound up making our own. With that said we thought if we just purchased the most pure copper available it would make the perfect bullet for hunting. Well, it didn't work that way. If we had known we would have never started this business. We were in to deep at this point with a cnc lathe set up in my garage, that we couldn't afford, and we had to find a raw material that would work. We literally bought thousands of pounds of copper at full price and recycled at less than half price trying to find a copper that would do what we expected throughout the range of velocity required for hunting. In the beginning we used copper that is common in the bullet industry. It did not live up to our standards, but it worked well enough to go to market. We were not satisfied with good enough and continued to try diff copper alloys trying to find our ideal terminal performance. Our ideal bullet was based on this physics study http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html, not personal bias and emotions. By the grace of God we found the copper that we use now. It changed everything. We now had a copper that would perform at high or low velocity, predictably, the way we wanted. We have to continually monitor or copper to make sure that it meets our needed formula to work properly as a bullet.

So to throw a blanket statement aimed at non lead bullets from a personal bias without any first hand experience, let alone scientific knowledge of how a permanent wound is created by a bullet, other than " I have killed lots of animals, therefore I am an expert on terminal performance." is irresponsible at best.

For those of you that want to know more about terminal performance, I recommend you take the time to read the physics paper that I linked. Weather you want to use copper or lead bullets makes no difference. Knowledge is good. Wives tales spread falsehoods that are detrimental.

There is no mistaking what @FEENIX is trying to do. Help inform everyone right? So I am sure he will welcome my thoughts and encourage folks to study the science.

 

[Hard rock]

I have read a lot of this guys research ,he puts work in on the subject.
I also have been doing research on the effects of Nosler bullets on deer and elk ,for most of my adult life . I have found spectacular results, with them.
I think I will wait until I am forced ,to start researching a new bullet type .

You say researching or actually hunting with them . I thought California was a lead free state either way I've had a lot of experience with Partitions , but now shoot monos , just curious about your post

 

[cornshank]

You say researching or actually hunting with them . I thought California was a lead free state either way I've had a lot of experience with Partitions , but now shoot monos , just curious about your post

My research is over 20 elk , and over 20 deer.
The lead free recently started in California, and some use lead free and some don't.

 

[FEENIX]

The blanket statements made in this article are simply emotional and uninformed, made by a self important, self proclaimed expert.

I can't speak for other copper or mono bullet manufacturers, but as far as we are concerned, terminal performance is by far the most important reason we got into making bullets. We at Hammer Bullets will never sacrifice terminal performance for anything. Not bc, not price, not production capacity, not anything.

Prior to making bullets Brian and I were those weird guys at the range catching bullets in water jugs to see what they did. Our quest for a better bullet that would make our animals nice and dead without blowing them to pieces lead us to copper bullets. We saw much less meat damage with copper vs lead. We used quite a few diff copper bullets for hunting. In the end they all had some issue that we didn't like. We wound up making our own. With that said we thought if we just purchased the most pure copper available it would make the perfect bullet for hunting. Well, it didn't work that way. If we had known we would have never started this business. We were in to deep at this point with a cnc lathe set up in my garage, that we couldn't afford, and we had to find a raw material that would work. We literally bought thousands of pounds of copper at full price and recycled at less than half price trying to find a copper that would do what we expected throughout the range of velocity required for hunting. In the beginning we used copper that is common in the bullet industry. It did not live up to our standards, but it worked well enough to go to market. We were not satisfied with good enough and continued to try diff copper alloys trying to find our ideal terminal performance. Our ideal bullet was based on this physics study http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html, not personal bias and emotions. By the grace of God we found the copper that we use now. It changed everything. We now had a copper that would perform at high or low velocity, predictably, the way we wanted. We have to continually monitor or copper to make sure that it meets our needed formula to work properly as a bullet.

So to throw a blanket statement aimed at non lead bullets from a personal bias without any first hand experience, let alone scientific knowledge of how a permanent wound is created by a bullet, other than " I have killed lots of animals, therefore I am an expert on terminal performance." is irresponsible at best.

For those of you that want to know more about terminal performance, I recommend you take the time to read the physics paper that I linked. Weather you want to use copper or lead bullets makes no difference. Knowledge is good. Wives tales spread falsehoods that are detrimental.

There is no mistaking what @FEENIX is trying to do. Help inform everyone right? So I am sure he will welcome my thoughts and encourage folks to study the science.

Yes Sir! I am glad you chimed in; your last statement is spot on. This continuous learner welcomes and appreciates your input. Wishing you and Brian continued success with Hammer Bullets.

Ed

 

[P7M13]

I'm so glad meat comes in shrink wrapped styro trays. It would be so inhumane otherwise.

Didn't click, don't care.

 

[Muddyboots]

Only 5 pages, really disappointed so far.

 

[FEENIX]

Only 5 pages, really disappointed so far.

Me too! How have you been Brother? I hope all is well, and you're staying healthy.

 

[Huntnpack]

We need to remember to choose our words wisely. Choose wisely when starting a thread topic, posting in a thread,
We are all here to "Promote"
Not be a "Detriment"

 

[Petey308]

The blanket statements made in this article are simply emotional and uninformed, made by a self important, self proclaimed expert.

I can't speak for other copper or mono bullet manufacturers, but as far as we are concerned, terminal performance is by far the most important reason we got into making bullets. We at Hammer Bullets will never sacrifice terminal performance for anything. Not bc, not price, not production capacity, not anything.

Prior to making bullets Brian and I were those weird guys at the range catching bullets in water jugs to see what they did. Our quest for a better bullet that would make our animals nice and dead without blowing them to pieces lead us to copper bullets. We saw much less meat damage with copper vs lead. We used quite a few diff copper bullets for hunting. In the end they all had some issue that we didn't like. We wound up making our own. With that said we thought if we just purchased the most pure copper available it would make the perfect bullet for hunting. Well, it didn't work that way. If we had known we would have never started this business. We were in to deep at this point with a cnc lathe set up in my garage, that we couldn't afford, and we had to find a raw material that would work. We literally bought thousands of pounds of copper at full price and recycled at less than half price trying to find a copper that would do what we expected throughout the range of velocity required for hunting. In the beginning we used copper that is common in the bullet industry. It did not live up to our standards, but it worked well enough to go to market. We were not satisfied with good enough and continued to try diff copper alloys trying to find our ideal terminal performance. Our ideal bullet was based on this physics study http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html, not personal bias and emotions. By the grace of God we found the copper that we use now. It changed everything. We now had a copper that would perform at high or low velocity, predictably, the way we wanted. We have to continually monitor or copper to make sure that it meets our needed formula to work properly as a bullet.

So to throw a blanket statement aimed at non lead bullets from a personal bias without any first hand experience, let alone scientific knowledge of how a permanent wound is created by a bullet, other than " I have killed lots of animals, therefore I am an expert on terminal performance." is irresponsible at best.

For those of you that want to know more about terminal performance, I recommend you take the time to read the physics paper that I linked. Weather you want to use copper or lead bullets makes no difference. Knowledge is good. Wives tales spread falsehoods that are detrimental.

There is no mistaking what @FEENIX is trying to do. Help inform everyone right? So I am sure he will welcome my thoughts and encourage folks to study the science.

Not at all trying to stir the pot or argue, but I'm curious…. Have you actually read the works of Mr. Foster? I don't at all believe him to be a "self important and self proclaimed expert" based on him simply killing lots of animals. The man has thoroughly tested more bullets, without a strict bias, than anyone else I know and posted all his findings on his webpage and/or his published works. His work and experience has created his viewpoint. He's not just some guy out there with his own opinions. he doesn't sell any bullets and isn't affiliated with any bullet manufacturer. For his experience and published work, he's the most humble person I know on the matter. If you can't post about yourself and accomplishments as a form of credentials and credibility, what else would you use? If anyone is to take you seriously, you need to have some sort of credibility, right?

All that said, I completely agree that knowledge is power and no one should take just one persons word on anything. There's tons of info out there to help you on your quest for success. I implore anyone and everyone to seek it out and empower themselves with it.

 

[FEENIX]

We need to remember to choose our words wisely. Choose wisely when starting a thread topic, posting in a thread,
We are all here to "Promote"
Not be a "Detriment"

"IF" you are referring to me, "I" posted it "as-is" and not altering the author's words.