Home Defense ARs?

[dfanonymous]

I haven't got to play with a canted sight system but I like the idea. Since I have more than one AR I'd set up mine as a dedicated CQB with co witnessed optics. I used Aimpoints but any reliable 1X that you could co witness should work. And though I like the 1-4 optics I tend to stay away from them for serious duty style set ups. Only because even though I've trained hard with variables to make sure I return the magnification to 1X, I screwed up and left them once on 4X. So after that I switched to either very low power mag (2.5X) on 1X on dangerous game or duty weapons.

Variable for sure isn't great for real cqb. I don't know everyone here but I have a really good feeling that no one has legitimate formal training, and more important, experience. Variables still have a eye box that's hard to get out of. Any form of CQB is a game of angles and geometry, and non-the-less, it's good practice to see as much as you can while sweeping sectors of a structor, especially if there are non-combatants in and around the vicinity. Using the Israeli method, pie slicing, of using methods of full penetration have one thing in common, the need of field of view, regardless of magnifications. That's neglecting during penetrating of a room, instinctual shooting usually occurs when the light show happens.

I think the majority of people interested in the subject just want something that is capable of blasting someone force entering into the front door. I wouldn't say that's CQB as much as engaging a threat coming into your home with a rifle in lieu of a pistol. Some magpul tritium sights, aim point or eotech is more than capable.

 

[Quarter Round]

If you want an AR try to find a cheap one, they all run and will fit the bill.

 

[xsn10s]

Variable for sure isn't great for real cqb. I don't know everyone here but I have a really good feeling that no one has legitimate formal training, and more important, experience. Variables still have a eye box that's hard to get out of. Any form of CQB is a game of angles and geometry, and non-the-less, it's good practice to see as much as you can while sweeping sectors of a structor, especially if there are non-combatants in and around the vicinity. Using the Israeli method, pie slicing, of using methods of full penetration have one thing in common, the need of field of view, regardless of magnifications. That's neglecting during penetrating of a room, instinctual shooting usually occurs when the light show happens.

I think the majority of people interested in the subject just want something that is capable of blasting someone force entering into the front door. I wouldn't say that's CQB as much as engaging a threat coming into your home with a rifle in lieu of a pistol. Some magpul tritium sights, aim point or eotech is more than capable.

I agree variable aren't what I'd want on my home defense rifles. Which is why I don't have them on there. But I use them for my truck gun which is my target/ varmint rifle. For home defense all I have on my AR is a light. And I don't anything on my 870. I like to keep things light and simple if I need to slice the pie. For nights sights I only had them on my pistol. And I preferred the Heinie dot over dot. I think they called them flying eight or something like that. But I'm old and my training is from the 80's through 2000. So I'm old and dated.

 

[Deleted member 48126]

Variable for sure isn't great for real cqb. I don't know everyone here but I have a really good feeling that no one has legitimate formal training, and more important, experience. Variables still have a eye box that's hard to get out of. Any form of CQB is a game of angles and geometry, and non-the-less, it's good practice to see as much as you can while sweeping sectors of a structor, especially if there are non-combatants in and around the vicinity. Using the Israeli method, pie slicing, of using methods of full penetration have one thing in common, the need of field of view, regardless of magnifications. That's neglecting during penetrating of a room, instinctual shooting usually occurs when the light show happens.

I think the majority of people interested in the subject just want something that is capable of blasting someone force entering into the front door. I wouldn't say that's CQB as much as engaging a threat coming into your home with a rifle in lieu of a pistol. Some magpul tritium sights, aim point or eotech is more than capable.

What would you think of me if I told you the number one guy in our stack carried a 249?? lol

 

[dfanonymous]

I've trained guys at the kill house at camp atterbury. So without starting a inter-service rival, I will say that nobody "clears" rooms with any common sense outside of SOF or special trained units/TF conducting true urban warfare.

Then again, how many cav scouts, 11 bangs etc are actually doing that on a regular basis?

The infantry wants their guys to perform at a 18s level, but without investing the training. The result is a bunch of guys running into a fatal funnel, j-hooking, yelling clear, with no one shooting back. No coordination in movement, poor to no planning,

The 249 saw isn't the real issue, the leadership and the fundamental understanding of how the world dynamics take shape is. But yeah, it would be his luck that the saw would jam trying to limit to a burst fire with out wrecking the whole structure with a belt fed weapon. After that he's just the distraction smh.

 

[xsn10s]

So without starting a inter-service rival, I will say that nobody "clears" rooms with any common sense outside of SOF or special trained units/TF conducting true urban warfare.

That's a true statement which includes me. And that would include many paramilitary organizations. But given the choice of allowing someone to get to a loved one or waiting for help to arrive I'll work my way towards them. It's a personal choice with the risks taken into consideration. BTW thanks for your service. I'm former Army Medic who was tasked with a Scout Platoon.

 

[MtPockets]

I so very much enjoy the jargan from you military guys. I don't understand most of it, but I do enjoy hearing it. Most all of my family is military, so it's kind of like a family reunion without the bs!

On a different note, I've had a lot of home defense conversations with old school law enforcement and other gun nuts.
One conversation centered around lights/sights. It was interesting because some of them actually recommended no lights OR special sights but rather they advocated learning to shoot with your eyes closed- as if you are shooting in the dead of night.
Their reasoning was that sights can fail or get bumped and lights give away your position.
I think most felt that lights for the aggressor was a plus (such as a nighttime raid on a drug dealer), because you could surprise and blind the unsuspecting individual, but for the person with an intruder in the house they recommended learning to shoot "blind".
I think that was part of the thinking with using a .22, too, was that it would take a LOT of shooting to get proficient with it.

What are your thoughts on that?

 

[xsn10s]

I have never heard of any LEO or agency advocate learning to shoot with your eyes closed. I wouldn't advise anyone to do it either.

 

[RT2506]

I have never heard of shooting with your eyes shut but it would be basically point shooting which is something good to learn. Have you ever touched off a 4" 357 mag in the dark inside a house etc? You will be about blind and deaf from the muzzle flash and blast.

 

[Deleted member 48126]

I so very much enjoy the jargan from you military guys. I don't understand most of it, but I do enjoy hearing it. Most all of my family is military, so it's kind of like a family reunion without the bs!

On a different note, I've had a lot of home defense conversations with old school law enforcement and other gun nuts.
One conversation centered around lights/sights. It was interesting because some of them actually recommended no lights OR special sights but rather they advocated learning to shoot with your eyes closed- as if you are shooting in the dead of night.
Their reasoning was that sights can fail or get bumped and lights give away your position.
I think most felt that lights for the aggressor was a plus (such as a nighttime raid on a drug dealer), because you could surprise and blind the unsuspecting individual, but for the person with an intruder in the house they recommended learning to shoot "blind".
I think that was part of the thinking with using a .22, too, was that it would take a LOT of shooting to get proficient with it.

What are your thoughts on that?

I would shoot at night if your range let's you or you have a place like that too shoot. Shooting at night is way different then shooting with your eyes closed. I would never shoot with my eyes closed.

 

[Riflehunter1776]

I have never heard of shooting with your eyes shut but it would be basically point shooting which is something good to learn. Have you ever touched off a 4" 357 mag in the dark inside a house etc? You will be about blind and deaf from the muzzle flash and blast.

this was one of the reasons given for using an AR carbine with a flashhider or can.
And it's easier to hit things with a carbine than with a pistol.
and the AR gives you 30 rds instead of six.

lots of good reasons to use the most modern technology for home defense. But ultimately whatever you, personally, are most proficient with is the thing that will give you the best chance of surviving.

 

[MtPockets]

One thing I should mention is that the conversation about learning to shoot at night was when weapon mounted lights were first coming out. From what I remember, there were not many good halo sights at the time, either.

Personally, my dogs will take care of an intruder long before I have to worry, anyway. And if they would somehow get past the dogs, they'll be looking at a 12 gauge with the house lights fully on.

I have never heard of any LEO or agency advocate learning to shoot with your eyes closed. I wouldn't advise anyone to do it either.

That conversation was centered around a practicing with a gun basically blind. From loading, taking off the safety and also shooting at a range mimicking an intruder in the room with you, so 15 feet or so.
I thought it was pretty good advice.

 

[xsn10s]

One thing I should mention is that the conversation about learning to shoot at night was when weapon mounted lights were first coming out. From what I remember, there were not many good halo sights at the time, either.

Personally, my dogs will take care of an intruder long before I have to worry, anyway. And if they would somehow get past the dogs, they'll be looking at a 12 gauge with the house lights fully on.





That conversation was centered around a practicing with a gun basically blind. From loading, taking off the safety and also shooting at a range mimicking an intruder in the room with you, so 15 feet or so.
I thought it was pretty good advice.

I agree dogs would be a first line of defense, or in my case ours could alert us. I still wouldn't advocate for shooting " basically blind" or "eyes closed". My biggest concern would be liability and safety. In a home defense or even law enforcement situation shooting in no light or low light you'll be questioned on threat assessment. If you don't have a good explanation of "reasonableness" then you could be in big trouble. Plus if you get into practicing "shooting blind" then it's possible you shoot without making a good assessment of if whatever you're hearing or partially seeing is a threat. You may feel threatened but without seeing the threat how are you making a assessment of that threat? Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Deleted member 48126]

Anyone got anymore recs for a home defense gun? I'm good on TTPs. I'm a one man sapper.