Help with selecting bench top lathe and vertical mill

[Mram10us]

Precisely! Go ahead and buy that cheap, Chinese stuff. They're well on their way to owning 1/2-3/4 of this country, anyway. I work in a machine shop ( I have been in machining since '74). We bought some lower cost inserts off of e-Bay trying to save, as it's tough enough competing against imports as it is. They looked the same, but they didn't last as long as the name brand and the finish wasn't nearly as good. The chucks that come on most of these imported lathes are just bare basic as are the "tooling packages" that come with the mills. "Work holding" is far more important than most give it credit for. Direct mount chucks s&ck for "high accuracy" work, they are fine for general machining. A good chuck mounted to a back plate that has been 'trued' to the machine it will be used on is a far superior set-up for extreme accuracy. The chucks and tooling packages that come with these lathes and mills are hobby quality. Top of the line work requires top of the line tools. I can not imagine doing the vary best I can when it comes to barrel work, both for myself or my clients. If "good enough" is good enough for you, that is your choice as we still live in the USA, at least for now..

No coffee this morning? Would you buy a precision matthews? The eisen was made in taiwan. The tooling that comes with them works fine. I can point you toward my old gunsmith (74) that used one for 20 years and built very accurate rifles.

OP, some are very negative about anything not american made. Buy what you want, but I guarantee you can build great rifles with PM, eisen or grizzly.

 

[shortgrass]

I didn't say don't buy the PM, I said chit can the chucks that come with it (or sell them to some fool who doesn't know the difference). Also, cheap Chinese cutters aren't worth having.

 

[jrock]

I went the PM12x36 route. I would not do less than a 12x36 given a 1.5"+ bore. I find gunsmithing to have very light cuts so rigidity doesn't seem to be an issue with the machining as much as the tooling that you might choose to use. I haven't tried to chamber on a steady rest but I would buy a longer bed for that method.
A 14x40 would be perfect for a small business but it was out of my $$ reach for hobby work. Get one that has a foot brake. Its a very good feature to have.
For a mill, went with a 9x48 Bridgeport mill as I wanted to make sure I had plenty of room to do any gunsmith work, including fluting barrels. I would like to say I'm now saving for a larger production CNC mill but that's just a dream at this point.

 

[Mram10us]

I didn't say don't buy the PM, I said chit can the chucks that come with it (or sell them to some fool who doesn't know the difference). Also, cheap Chinese cutters aren't worth having.

Pm is made in the same factory in taiwan as the eisen. As for cheap chinese cutters, they work. I'll happily send you a video of turning down a barrel at .040" with some 3/8 cheapos from ebay. Looks pretty

Op, keep us updated and keep asking questions. I bought a ton of stuff i don't use. Happy to sell you all my high speed steel blanks and cutters best of luck

 

[jrock]

Mram, what cheap Chinese cutters do you use? I'm looking to get some

 

[Mram10us]

Mram, what cheap Chinese cutters do you use? I'm looking to get some

I bought a set like this cause i had some crap steel i needed to turn. Bumped the speed up to 1100 and cut .040" up to .080" just to see what they'd do. They did a great job and left a nice finish. Saved my kenemetal stuff from getting beat up. I run it at 700 and .040"ish to turn down barrels.

I got them for dirt cheap or I would have got the 5/8" set.

 

[livetohunt]

I just picked up a used lathe for blanking all my muzzle brakes and doing my own rifle builds. It's a Kingston 17x67. Things a beast but it was local, got a decent amount of tooling with it and it was delivered free because it was a local sale! It's going to do everything I need it to, but I would have preferred a 40 length lathe as opposed to this. Thankfully we had the perfect place for it in the shop, right in front of the flag!

We run on 3 phase because of our other machines... but if your looking used make sure you find one that is 220 capable as opposed to 3 phase!

the DRO with adjustable tool offsets is what made it a great deal.

Ken

 

[birdiemc]

I just picked up a used lathe for blanking all my muzzle brakes and doing my own rifle builds. It's a Kingston 17x67. Things a beast but it was local, got a decent amount of tooling with it and it was delivered free because it was a local sale! It's going to do everything I need it to, but I would have preferred a 40 length lathe as opposed to this. Thankfully we had the perfect place for it in the shop, right in front of the flag!

We run on 3 phase because of our other machines... but if your looking used make sure you find one that is 220 capable as opposed to 3 phase!

the DRO with adjustable tool offsets is what made it a great deal.

Ken

View attachment 226434

My milling machine is 3phase but I'm running it on a vfd with no problems so far. Initial purchase and setup for the VFD was pretty intimidating, but once I got the first one out of the way I got no problem doing it all over again, in fact I just bought a lot of 3phase motors (8) 1hp (1) 3hp and (1) 7hp for $56 at a local auction....3phase dont have to be scary

 

[livetohunt]

Our 40 horse phase converter was over $4k. Cant wait to get into a place with actual 3 phase. All our stuff pulls too much amperage for a VFD.

 

[birdiemc]

Our 40 horse phase converter was over $4k. Cant wait to get into a place with actual 3 phase. All our stuff pulls too much amperage for a VFD.

Yeah I didnt think about high hp equipment, you must he running some rowdy equipment with a 40hp motor....that's an awesome looking lathe you got there btw, of course the backdrop doesnt hurt things any

 

[brguide]

Precision Matthew's is about the best way to go. With the one of the longest warranties in the business you can't go wrong. I bought the PM12x36 and have since added a magnetic DRO, Baldor motor, true bore alignment system, and forged gator 6 jaw chuck. If I could go back in time I would grab the GT14x40 that is made in Taiwan and grab all the accessories I did. If you go with the more affordable model like mine get the upgraded motor and a DRO they will make a huge difference especially the motor and cut quality. I also bought a year later the PM30MV mill and just wished it had a 40 or 42 inch table so I could flute barrels. I make my own brakes and of course cut my own barrel all the time. Just remember the machines are the cheap part. The tooling will cost thousands, and then even more tooling is needed than you think. Save your money and get a Taiwan model if you can. Otherwise do like I did and here soon I will sell my lathe and get a Taiwan later.

 

[Far North Hunter]

Precision Matthew's is about the best way to go. With the one of the longest warranties in the business you can't go wrong. I bought the PM12x36 and have since added a magnetic DRO, Baldor motor, true bore alignment system, and forged gator 6 jaw chuck. If I could go back in time I would grab the GT14x40 that is made in Taiwan and grab all the accessories I did. If you go with the more affordable model like mine get the upgraded motor and a DRO they will make a huge difference especially the motor and cut quality. I also bought a year later the PM30MV mill and just wished it had a 40 or 42 inch table so I could flute barrels. I make my own brakes and of course cut my own barrel all the time. Just remember the machines are the cheap part. The tooling will cost thousands, and then even more tooling is needed than you think. Save your money and get a Taiwan model if you can. Otherwise do like I did and here soon I will sell my lathe and get a Taiwan later.

Very good comments..thanks much.

 

[J E Custom]

My only recommendation is not to cheap out. regardless of what brand you decide on, get one with the features I recommended. You can always find need for a bigger lathe with more features, but you ask about your first lathe and my recommendation was based on MY experiences with cheaper lathes of minimum sizes to do gun work.

No matter how far you want to get into gunsmithing If you chose the right features and dimensions, you will be able to do the job with a normal amount of set up time and trouble.

I went through 3 different lathes then the forth one finally had the features and precision to do quality work. I spent way more on the other 3 lathes and tooling before I bought the one I now use. $5,000 to $8,000 should get you everything you will need for quality work. Quality is only as good as your skills and equipment.

As for tooling, My opinion is the same. You get what you pay for. Inserts are becoming more and more popular but cheap inserts are more expensive in the long run because they don't last as long and don't make as good of a finish cut as the better inserts so you end up sanding or filing to get fine finishes and results in the process of less dimensionaly consistent.

I am retired and understand the cost problem, But it has been my experience that if I buy as good as I can afford, I save money over the years.

Just My opinion.

J E CUSTOM

 

[John Klingenberg]

I been down both roads. Initially I bought a China lathe. It was ok to learn on. Some of the Early Taiwanese ones were pretty good. Then I discovered that you can buy older used stuff that's American made and is easy to rebuild. Usually a few bearings and shims, a new coat of paint and a cleaning while you got it apart. It's a great winter project. As someone mentioned....tooling, tooling, tooling, and precision measuring equipment, and holdings that are precision ground. That's where the money really goes. Get trained and buy some hardwood dowels to practice threading, schedule 40 PVC works too.