Help with Redding body only sizing die

[Huntz]

Once brass is fire formed to a chamber,unless you are FL resizing a case.There is no reason to bump back the shoulder.I use Redding body dies to only size the body and a collet die to size the neck.After awhile the cases will not chamber because of brass growth and need to be FL resized.Drop a once fired shell into your chamber and close the bolt.It should easily chamber.That should tell you something.You actually do not need to body size the case at all.Body sizing helps with bullet run out.If your case neck is concentric with the bore and has little to no run out.Don`t size the body.No die will size the body all the way to the bottom of the case.You are making things difficult for your self.Hornady makes a wax lube in a small plastic tub that works excellent.Throw the one shot lube in the trash unless you like removing stuck cases from your die.Brake cleaner on a swab cleans your dies inside easily.JMHO,Huntz

 

[Blackhawk]

Once brass is fire formed to a chamber,unless you are FL resizing a case.There is no reason to bump back the shoulder.I use Redding body dies to only size the body and a collet die to size the neck.After awhile the cases will not chamber because of brass growth and need to be FL resized.Drop a once fired shell into your chamber and close the bolt.It should easily chamber.That should tell you something.You actually do not need to body size the case at all.Body sizing helps with bullet run out.If your case neck is concentric with the bore and has little to no run out.Don`t size the body.No die will size the body all the way to the bottom of the case.You are making things difficult for your self.Hornady makes a wax lube in a small plastic tub that works excellent.Throw the one shot lube in the trash unless you like removing stuck cases from your die.Brake cleaner on a swab cleans your dies inside easily.JMHO,Huntz

 

[Blackhawk]

Initially, your statements are for the most part true. ( in a Perfect World)

However, if you use a body die without the competition shell holder set It does not bump the shoulder back to the point that it will allow your bolt to finally close smoothly on your brass hulls however, by using the Redding Competition Shell Holder Set in increments from a +.002" - +.010" you can and will achieve the correct shoulder bump and your round will chamber perfectly all the way past the cases belt all the way down to the case head.
With belted magnum cases on both of my.300 Win Mags and my.338 Win Mag, I after full-length resizing using a match grade die without the bushing inserted ( reference note only performed when I plan on annealing my brass) on every 3rd firing I will anneal my brass after the obligatory cleaning in steel pin media.and drying in a case dryer.
When dry I will FL resize again this time using the bushing inserted in my match die.
I will trim to length if needed and clean my primer pocket s if required.
Next, I will examine each hull for any signs of damage discarding any that are questionable.
Now I will use my Redding Body die and competition shell holder set if needed to ensure smooth insertion and extraction of cases making adjustments as needed.
Load as usual and place assembled ammunition on a concentricity gauge. (Note most of my rounds are within .+-.001" TIR and will not benefit from any adjustments however I usually bring my runout to -+ .0005" TIR
I do not understand your logic as to shoulder bumping and excessive bullet runout, as I have found this not to be the case and I examine every assembled round for bullet TIR.
As to your statement about once a case is fireformed, it should chamber easily into your rifle.
Basically again in a perfect world, yes but in the real world, you have issues with stacked tolerances of the brand of brass and its molecular structure as different brands of brass use different, components and in different amounts when they are manufactured. My brass cases benefit from shoulder bumping almost every time, and they are not loaded to max velocity. A typical load using Alliant RL-22 chronographs out at an MV of 3070 -3089. with less than -2 1/2 % of maximum powder load. Not exhibiting adverse pressure signs or hard extractions. The bolt face is clean and unmarred in any way.
In closing, I ask you this question.
Have you ever had a case with a hard extraction or worse yet unable to extract all?
If this happens to you just once that is one time too many!
So I advocate checking your brass to chamber fit with every reload that you perform, however, ultimately the choice is yours to make!
I know that when I'm at the range shooting I get so much satisfaction and a sense of pride knowing that my rounds are chambering correctly and impacting where they are supposed to.

The beauty of this forum is that everyone's opinion counts and matters.
To that end, it is up to you and your interpretations to separate the wheat from the chaff!

 

[25WSM]

I personally won't load any rifle rounds without shoulder bumping at least . 002 .
I want my brass to fit with no resistance on the bolt when closing it.
Shep

 

[Huntz]

I run every loaded round through the rifle.I do not bump the shoulders unless fl resizing.The rounds drop in with no resistance.My chambers are cut when re barreled and are concentric with the bore.When I feel resistance I FL resize.I might use 10 cases in a match and NS them right at the bench.Each case is indexed to the bore.That is how you get small groups.I do not clean the primer pockets between loads.This is what works for me.Everyone has their own opinion.I shoot for accuracy,not highest velocity.Huntz

 

[25WSM]

I normally don't cut my Chambers until well after rebarreling.

Sorry I had too. You know I'm pulling your chain right.
Shep

 

[iflyskyhigh]

Initially, your statements are for the most part true. ( in a Perfect World)
However, if you use a body die without the competition shell holder set It can and does bump the shoulder back to the point that it will allow your bolt to finally close smoothly on your brass hulls.
With belted magnum cases on both of my.300 Win Mags and my.338 Win Mag, I after full-length resizing using a match grade die without the bushing inserted on every 3 rd firing I will anneal my brass after the obligatory cleaning in steel pin media.and drying in a case dryer.
When dry I will FL resize again this time using the bushing inserted in my match die.
I will trim to length if needed and clean my primer pocket s if required.
Next, I will examine each hull for any signs of damage discarding any that are questionable.
Now I will use my Redding Body die and competition shell holder set if needed to ensure smooth insertion and extraction of cases making adjustments as needed.
Load as usual and place assembled ammunition on a concentricity gauge. (Note most of my rounds are within .+-.001" TIR and will not benefit from any adjustments however I usually bring my runout to -+ .0005" TIR
I do not understand your logic as to shoulder bumping and excessive bullet runout, as I have found this not to be the case and I examine every assembled round for bullet TIR.
As to your statement about once a case is fireformed, it should chamber easily into your rifle.
Basically again in a perfect world, yes but in the real world, you have issues with stacked tolerances of the brand of brass and its molecular structure as different brands of brass use different, components and in different amounts when they are manufactured. My brass cases benefit from shoulder bumping almost every time, and they are not loaded to max velocity. A typical load using Alliant RL-22 chronographs out at an MV of 3050 -3089. with less than -2 1/2 % of maximum powder load. Not exhibiting adverse pressure signs or hard extractions. The bolt face is clean and unmarred in any way.
In closing, I ask you this question.
Have you ever had a case with a hard extraction or worse yet unable to extract all?
If this happens to you just once that is one time too many!
So I advocate checking your brass to chamber fit with every reload that you perform, however, ultimately the choice is yours to make!
The beauty of this forum is that everyone's opinion counts and matters.
To that end, it is up to you and your interpretations to separate the wheat from the chaff!

Why the FL die and Body die?

So you FL size without bushing, clean, FL size with bushing, THEN Redding Body die? All in the same sizing?

Seems redundant.

This is question. Not a snide comment. I'm truly curious.

 

[skipglo]

Decided to give my new redding body only sizing die a try to reload some 300wsm. First put the die in my wet vibritory cleaner for 20 minuets, then wiped off using action cleaner. Unfortunately lost the set up directions the redding BOSD came with. Absolutely scoured the redding sight for info but found none. So I simply began by setting it up similarly to my Redding FL sizing die directions in that touched th die to the shell holder and backed off one full turn and lowered and sized in 1/8 or 1/4 increments . First I measured a 1x fired case with my Hornady size .420" head space gauge, (did confirm I'm using the correct type E #420 bushing) lubed with One Shot and resized the case measured it saw it didn't bump back the shoulder at all which quite surprised me as the resizing stroke took noticeable effort, also I could see the entire surface of brass showing evidence of being worked by the die save for about the last 1/4" of brass near the base. I lowered the die in 1/8 turn increments sized and measured.

Did this three times with three different pieces of the same lot# 1x fired brass and the headspace measurement remained unchanged or actually grew on all three.
The force required to resize the brass increased every time until I finally stopped after 3 tries when the force required to cam over the press became in my experience much to great and I feared I would either get a case stuck or ruin the die. The cases well very very well lubed with One Shot.
Prior to resizing the brass was very well cleaned and I inspected it all and found no issues.

The brass showed no signs of damage but did show obvious signs of being worked by the die. Been reloading for 30+ years and never had instance where a sizing die failed to bump back the shoulder. Unfortunately I misplaced my Redding 300wsm FL resizing die so don't have another die to help figuring out this problem. I closely inspected the inside of the RBOSD with a very bright light and the interior looks flawless.
I even used three different types of brass, Winchester, Federal and Hornady, same results every time. Even changed shell holders from Redding, to RCBS and Lyman. I also closely inspected the Hornady headspace bushing and found no damage. I then resized some 35 Remington cases and measured before and after to confirm I had bumped the shoulder back 0.002" to insure my Caliper was working correctly.

So now for the bizarre part. When I adjusted the die down as far as I felt it could safely go Every piece of brass I resized and measured actually GREW by 0.0015" to 0.002". I checked and remeasured 3x to confirm this as accurate.

I feel I have eliminated all possible variables that could be the cause except for the die itself as I do not have a standard FL resizing die to use as a test control.

So am I setting up the die incorrectly, doing something else wrong or is the die defective?

Check you tube!

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

did the OP ever reply ???

 

[243winxb]

did the OP ever reply ???

Last seen Thursday at 5:18 PM

(Post #3)
Thank you for educating me. I mistakenly thought the shoulder was included in the case body. I know now I was wrong. I thought a BOSD would size the case and bump back the shoulder but NOT resize the case neck. I already ordered a Redding FL sizing die.

He may have gotten some wrong info on the body die?

 

[25WSM]

The op was originally correct in assuming the body only sizing die did everything but the neck. Been some other threads where this was discussed. If only die companies would use specs that were . 005 shorter than minimum sammi spec then they all would work. But alot of dies are made as much as . 015 too deep. They have to make the dies shorter than minimum because even if they got it exactly at minimum and a chamber was cut perfect the die still wouldn't be able to get setback of the shoulder. Unless you modify your shell holder. Or cut the bottom of the die. It's not a hard concept. A little too short we just adjust the die up a tiny bit and all is good. A little too deep and it can't do what it was designed to do. As a smith I have specs I have to hit. Shouldn't they also have to hit specs too. Seems not.
Shep

 

[DartonJager]

My apologies for not checking back and replying sooner. Life often gets in the way of what we love to do making us do what we must but not necessarily enjoy doing.
Thanks immensely to all who replied and helped educate me. I am quite honestly a little overwhelmed at the amount of help I received. I have printed out all of it and are putting it in my 300wsm reloading ring binder.
Again thanks to all the great people who helped me out by sharing their reloading knowledge with me.
I will have to take considerable time going over all the replies and use them to educate myself on my ability to correctly use my RBOSD.
Since first posting my request for help TSHTF at work forcing a lot of OT (my companies current maintenance policy of don't buy get by is biting them badly) and my son informed me he can now get time off from his other commitments and go deer hunting with me on the opening weekend of our states gun season causing me to have to get his rifle ready for use a simply beautiful JM stamped marlin 336A in 35 Remington, as well as all other clothes and equipment. The 336A is perfect for the farm we are hunting this year as most shots will be well under 300 yards. I would normally just let him use one of my other rifles but he is the only left hand shooter in my family and the Marlin is ambidextrous and I had a no ammo left from last deer season as my son loves to shoot that rifle and used it all up in our range session second weekend of OCT.
Great little gun that 336A blew my socks off with how accurate it is considering it's a lever action. My son shoots it quite well and surprisingly it's his favorite rifle to shoot and prefers it over our AR's and H&K 416/22lr.

I will read all the replies in the next day or two as i must now leave for work. Once i have read them all I'm guessing I might have a few questions. So please allow me a little more of your patience in answering my questions.

Again thanks to all.

 

[birdiemc]

I see this all the time with customs I make. If you have a perfect chamber length alot of off the shelf dies just can't quite get the shoulder bumped. I put them in the lathe and turn about . 010 off the bottom. It's the easiest way. You can also take some off the top of your shell holder.
The reason your brass got longer on the headspace is simple. As you get close to bumping the shoulder the body is being sized inward up near the shoulder and it just has to go somewhere so the shoulder moves forward a bit. When you start seeing your headspace increase you are getting close to bumping. Seems to happen when your within . 005 from the bump.
Your chamber diameter may be on the bigger size and causing the increased effort with pulling the handle. Won't hurt anything at all. I personally like my brass sized a little bit extra so it's slightly looser. Years ago the chief ballistics guy at Sierra proved that looser brass in the chamber was more accurate than fitted or neck sized brass. And we're only talking a few thou here.
Shep

Shep when you face off the bottom of a die do you use carbide? I'm assuming HSS wont cut the hardened die is that correct?

 

[birdiemc]

First look to see if there is day light between the shell holder & bottom of the fl die when sizing, at the top of the stroke. . If you see daylight, the die needs to be turned down more. This removes any spring in the press & removes slop in the press linkage.

This one has me a bit perplexed...if the shell holder makes contact with the die without a case, then how would turning the die in more resolve an issue of the gap between the shell holder and die while at the top of the stroke while sizing? I'm not disagreeing I just can't think through what's going on in the setup that would lead to this gap. I ask because I am having the same problem, got a case stuck yesterday, finally got it out this afternoon, recalled this comment so I threw a case in and had the gap at the top of the stroke.