Help with Bergers!!!!

If your getting a 12 inch group the only thing you can change is the bullet period. Powder, or amount of powder, or primer, or case ain't going to matter. It won't matter how much care you take to load them either. If your gun will shoot a half inch group with one bullet then i'm pretty sure you could have a 3 grain variance in how much powder is in each case with the load with the ballistic tips and it would still shoot better than that.

I have a 257 scramjet that would not shoot a 100 grain barnes bullet and hit a two foot by two foot target every time at 100 yards, and a 100 grain partition with the same powder and primer and case would go in a 1/2 inch on the same day for three shots.

Who knows why it doesn't work ? I can tell you at 12 inches for a group you will burn a bunch of powder and never get it fixed.

The day I tried twenty barnes bullets through my scramjet I thought it was the worst money I had ever spent having my first custom rifle built. But I tried the partitions that day before I left and relized the bullet I wanted to shoot wasn't going to shoot and now I've shot a bunch of diferent bullets through that rifle and all of them shoot good but the barnes.

I can tell you when you have that much money in a gun and you don't know where the next bullet will hit at 100 yards it's a wierd feeling. It's a worse feeling knowing something so close to the same load shoots great because it just doesn't make since.

And worse than that the barnes were the first twenty out of the rifle, it was a bad feeling. I was shooting one and then clean for the first twenty.
 
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I have tried several times to get Bergers to work in my competition rifles with no luck. The Green Box will make very small holes. Have a couple of sporters that like the Nosler BT's but otherwise, use the SMK's ---- some rifles just do not want to shoot certian bullets so it is better to move on rather than wasting tube life, powder, time etc...

My .02
 
I have tried several times to get Bergers to work in my competition rifles with no luck. The Green Box will make very small holes. Have a couple of sporters that like the Nosler BT's but otherwise, use the SMK's ---- some rifles just do not want to shoot certian bullets so it is better to move on rather than wasting tube life, powder, time etc...

My .02
+ 1 for the green box they may not have as sexy a number on the sheet but on the target they always do
 
I doubt it's the bullets or twist. (1 in 9" Hart should be perfect)

Some here are complaining they couldn't get the Bergers to shoot. But, I'd bet they were frustrated that they couldn't get below 1.2" not 12".

You don't get 12" groups out of a rifle that shoots .5" with the same weight bullet unless something's completely amiss.

...or maybe you do.

...sounds like the scope base came loose. But, you already said you shot the other bullets afterwards.

The other guys are probably right in that you may as well ditch the Bergers and try something completely different. Nonetheless, I'd sure like to see what would happen if you started all over again with a load workup from scratch.

Can't wait to find out what you determine.
 
I doubt it's the bullets or twist. (1 in 9" Hart should be perfect)

Some here are complaining they couldn't get the Bergers to shoot. But, I'd bet they were frustrated that they couldn't get below 1.2" not 12".

You don't get 12" groups out of a rifle that shoots .5" with the same weight bullet unless something's completely amiss.

...or maybe you do.

...sounds like the scope base came loose. But, you already said you shot the other bullets afterwards.

The other guys are probably right in that you may as well ditch the Bergers and try something completely different. Nonetheless, I'd sure like to see what would happen if you started all over again with a load workup from scratch.

Can't wait to find out what you determine.

+1 a ground up approch is a great suggestion
 
I had the Bergers working great in one rifle but as soon as the throat was out of the sweet spot or what ever happened they started pitching them to the 10-12 in mark, the same exact load and seated to the same jump with an Accubond would stay at a solid .5-.75 MOA, I thought something had gone way bad till I check with the Accubonds :rolleyes:
Bergers can be odd, when they shoot they are great but sometimes it's just not worth the work to keep them shooting.
 
Has anyone else had this exerience with Bergers. I have a 243 that will shoot 95gr nosler ballistic tips sub .5moa all day long with vit n160 powder. I have used the same charge of n160 with 95 gr VLD hunting bullets and cannot get them to shoot at all. I saw the sticky on here from Berger about loading different seating depths. I went today in good conditions with 6 loads each of .005 off the rifling, .040 off, .080 off, and .120 off. My best 3 shot group at 100yds was about 12inches. That's right 12INCHES!! Most were 15inches to 2feet. Has anyone experienced this. I really wanted to shoot these bullets but I am at a loss for what to do.

95grain VLD'S are a long bullet for a .243 and I suspect your barrel is a 1 in 10 so it will not stabilize the VLD. I know because I have tried and tried and tried again.

If you want a 100grain bullet use the Speer grandslam, it is a lot shorter. Stability is not about weight, it is more to do with length of bullet.

Check out what I am saying here. >>>>JBM - Calculations - Stability

You can check the length of your bullets here >>> JBM - Bullet Length List

The berger VLD is 1.15" long.

I just did the calcs and in order to get stability with this software you need a reading of 1.3-2.0

With a length of 1.15 and a velocity of 3000fps and a twist of 1 in 10 it gives a reading of 1.084, which means UNSTABLE IN FLIGHT !!!

You need a minimum of 1 in 9 twist for Berger VLD's in .243 !!!
 
Great Info!!!! Thanks so Much!!




95grain VLD'S are a long bullet for a .243 and I suspect your barrel is a 1 in 10 so it will not stabilize the VLD. I know because I have tried and tried and tried again.

If you want a 100grain bullet use the Speer grandslam, it is a lot shorter. Stability is not about weight, it is more to do with length of bullet.

Check out what I am saying here. >>>>JBM - Calculations - Stability

You can check the length of your bullets here >>> JBM - Bullet Length List

The berger VLD is 1.15" long.

I just did the calcs and in order to get stability with this software you need a reading of 1.3-2.0

With a length of 1.15 and a velocity of 3000fps and a twist of 1 in 10 it gives a reading of 1.084, which means UNSTABLE IN FLIGHT !!!

You need a minimum of 1 in 9 twist for Berger VLD's in .243 !!!
 
I thought it was. This is a custom built gun that I bought from mcwhorters in GA who are great. I have had 2 guns built by them now. I have a call into them now to find out the twist rate for sure.
 
I have a savage edge in .243 and cannot get the berger vlds to shoot for crap. I bought the HSM trophy gold ammo. I shot a whole box and would always have one flyer bullet out of 3. I then shot winchester powermax 100s and they shoot great. Bullets are touching from 100 yds. I am pretty sure my barrel twist is 9.25 so it should be just fine in my gun but thats not the case. I was really upset because I wanted to shoot berger vlds in my 7mm mag but they worry me a bit now. When I build that long range 7mm we will see how they shoot.
 
I have a savage edge in .243 and cannot get the berger vlds to shoot for crap. I bought the HSM trophy gold ammo. I shot a whole box and would always have one flyer bullet out of 3. I then shot winchester powermax 100s and they shoot great. Bullets are touching from 100 yds. I am pretty sure my barrel twist is 9.25 so it should be just fine in my gun but thats not the case. I was really upset because I wanted to shoot berger vlds in my 7mm mag but they worry me a bit now. When I build that long range 7mm we will see how they shoot.

Sorry teampete, but if you use this website >>> http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi it will show you that 9.25 twist WILL NOT stabilise the Berger 95 grain VLD's.

You need a minimum of 9 twist prefferably 8.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news mate.
 
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