Help me with an AR load

[Citified]

For a lot of shooters, the standard battle trigger has a lot to do with how the rifle shoots.
None of mine carry a factory trigger now and that made a difference. With a 1:8 barrel, I recommend using the same headstamp brass with either 69 or 77 grain Sierra MK and a middle of the road charge of Varget ( readily available) or R15. If it won't group after that there is likely a barrel issue.

 

[kfreeze]

I have never loaded for an AR before but thought I would give it a shot. My friend wanted to try to shoot the 73 grain ELD-M in his AR. I started with CFE223 powder but it is a no-go. Let me back up and say, something is a no-go. I tried a really low charge of 24 grains and have been all the way to 26.9 without hardly anything looking like a group. The closest thing to a group was the lowest charge generating only around 2,450 fps. My friend says it is a 1 in 8 twist and I don't have reason to doubt that. The holes in the target were little round holes and not egg shaped or anything for me to thing the bullets were unstable due to twist rate. Do you guys think there is something wrong with his setup or do I need to try a different powder or what would be your recommendation? I was using mixed brass too, so there's that. Winchester 41 primers. Looking forward to learning from you folks.

With ar's, I've found that it's easier to switch bullets or powders and find something it likes naturally. I don't toy with loads too much for them other than a simple powder ladder test.

 

[Munch]

There are so many little things that go into making the AR platform a highly accurate weapon. Like others have stated, it is a battle rifle and 4 MOA is not outside reasonable expectations for the rifle.

Yet there are many things one can do to enhance accuracy...from ammunition to rifle components.

It all comes down to how much coin you wish to spend.

 

[Citified]

I have not used the 73 ELD except Bergers 73 LTB
(Length tolerant bullet). This bullet actually grouped well in both 1:8 and 1:7 barrels.
If the rifle will not shoot 69 Sierras under two MOA, there is another issue.

 

[Unionsparky46]

For a lot of shooters, the standard battle trigger has a lot to do with how the rifle shoots.
None of mine carry a factory trigger now and that made a difference. With a 1:8 barrel, I recommend using the same headstamp brass with either 69 or 77 grain Sierra MK and a middle of the road charge of Varget ( readily available) or R15. If it won't group after that there is likely a barrel issue.

I agree. Swapped out my standard trigger for a geiselle two stage in my mk12 mod 1. Made a World of difference. My charges for 69gr smk-26g 77gr smk- 24.2. Both varget. Suggested COAL and cci 41 primer. Mine will bug hole at 200 pretty easy.

 

[GUNNNN]

I was getting ready to order some other goodies so I will see if I can find the 77gr SMK and toss a box or two of those in cart too.

I understand that I can't "just copy and get equal results" from someone else's load data but it's a good starting point. If multiple people got on here and said that the particular bullets he's wanting to shoot in his gun have not worked for them regardless of what combination of powder and primer they used, I'd say that would be good information. Likewise, if multiple people got on here and said, I tried this powder, bullet and primer combination and had pretty good results, I'd consider that information too. That's the point of these forums isn't it? Aren't we supposed to be here to share information and help each other? I'll admit, I'm ignorant when it comes to the AR platform and I'm not the most experienced person when it comes to reloading but I am trying and eager to learn all I can. However, I don't have unlimited budget nor the time to test each and every powder, bullet, case, primer, sizing die, seating die, crimping die, barrel length, BCG, upper, lower, handguard.........

I hate to come on here and ask for help because I always get some kind of "help" in the form of, you can't do this or you can't do that or why would you want to do that? Most of the people I have encountered here and dealt with have been awesome but there are some that just have a hard time helping without trying to make others feel stupid. I'm sorry for the rant and I'm sorry for asking for help. Thanks guys.

I've loaded several different loads for my son's cheap Anderson ar15 the load that actually worked best for his rifle was h335 and hornady 55 gr soft point I can't remember the exact but I'm sure it was as hot as the book listed for it it feed really well and my 14 year old grand daughter could keep it around an inch or less at 100yds now that kid can shoot as well as or better than most people. We also tried some 53gr smk through it they did very well with varget and aa2520 shot well with these bullets I didn't try any heavy bullets tho the only problem he had was that Anderson gets dirty really quickly , I've shot these same loads through my encore with a 26" barrel and they're lights out l hope this helps

 

[GUNNNN]

I was getting ready to order some other goodies so I will see if I can find the 77gr SMK and toss a box or two of those in cart too.

I understand that I can't "just copy and get equal results" from someone else's load data but it's a good starting point. If multiple people got on here and said that the particular bullets he's wanting to shoot in his gun have not worked for them regardless of what combination of powder and primer they used, I'd say that would be good information. Likewise, if multiple people got on here and said, I tried this powder, bullet and primer combination and had pretty good results, I'd consider that information too. That's the point of these forums isn't it? Aren't we supposed to be here to share information and help each other? I'll admit, I'm ignorant when it comes to the AR platform and I'm not the most experienced person when it comes to reloading but I am trying and eager to learn all I can. However, I don't have unlimited budget nor the time to test each and every powder, bullet, case, primer, sizing die, seating die, crimping die, barrel length, BCG, upper, lower, handguard.........

I hate to come on here and ask for help because I always get some kind of "help" in the form of, you can't do this or you can't do that or why would you want to do that? Most of the people I have encountered here and dealt with have been awesome but there are some that just have a hard time helping without trying to make others feel stupid. I'm sorry for the rant and I'm sorry for asking for help. Thanks guys.

I've been told my whole life that there is no shame in asking for help when you're really working hard to accomplish your goals and some really smart folks have told me that there is no such thing as a dumb question. So I say for the nay sayers and pecker heads **** on em most of the time they're just jealous anyway

 

[30378wbymag]

Just a hunter,
I don't think this has been said but have your buddy check the crown on the muzzle, just a nick can be horrendous on accuracy. We have 5 AR's and they all will put 3 shots at a hundred inside a nickel all day, a couple of em are in the .3's. AR's can be very accurate and are so easy to work on. They can be addictive as brownies so be careful.

 

[QuietTexan]

To put some perspective on this - you shot a 2" group at 100 yards, I think that you (or rather your friend) has now moved from the "shoot better ammo" to the "put in better parts" phase with this rifle. You hit about as good of precision as can be expected without knowing what the thing is made out of. The next step of changing optics and trigger is because those both make pretty significant differences in the base precision of the rifle. So hey, you done good, even if you weren't thrilled with what you found you.

You didn't say what chamber is actually stamped on the barrel of this rifle, is it 5.56 or 223 Rem or something else? Something also to consider - there is load data from Hornady for 223 Rem, 223 Service Rifle, and 5.56. That 'really low' 24.0gn load you shot for 5.56 is close to the top end of 223 Service rifle.

The precision load you found was "slow" in that you were about 150 fps behind on what the book says that the charge weight you loaded should do, it was not "low" in the sense that you were right below the 24.9gn max 223 Service Rifle load for the 73gn ELD-M. That means you found the smallest group in the correct charge weight range and lost it when you pushed it. It's not uncommon to find best precision below max velocity.

Likewise, if multiple people got on here and said, I tried this powder, bullet and primer combination and had pretty good results, I'd consider that information too.

The 77gn SMK and 23.0-24.xgns of Varget is the gold standard load for ARs IMO. If you aren't happy with the speed where you found precision with CFE, changing powder is the next step. CFE 223 is fine for lighter bullets but for heavier (65+gn) bullets in 223 Varget is better.

 

[TRG65]

I have had good luck with the 73 eld in one rifle and not in another. The rifle that likes them I reload with Varget at 24.4grs. This gives about 2700 from that 18" barrel. It is mixed headstamp and will give right at little less or a little more than 1 MOA out to 300. The SD and ES are awful, but for shorter ranges the accuracy holds. The 24-24.8 gr range with varget is were I've landed with 69-80 grain loads over the years. Only one rifle did I have to drop down to 23.5 with 77smk to get moa, and then the velocity was also very slow, but it was consistent.

 

[budlight]

Lot's of AR-15's sadly are just very poor loose sloppy builds!

The upper receiver, BCG, M-lok type free float with quality barrel nut, and barrel make a world of difference.

I have some competition 15's and I use quality drop in triggers. I also use Caldwell Lead sled rifle holder to really dial the sights in. It take out the human element. You need all the same brass for consistency. IMO 75 grain pills are the max weight. The case and mag length starts putting the bullet too far down inside. That's why they came up with the Valkyrie.
Pre C-19 I was able to buy boxes of 5000 very high BC 62 gr HPBT and dialed them in at 3120 fps out of my 20 inch with 11 degree crowned match grade barrels using commercial brass and about 27 grains of CFE or LeverRevolution powder.

CMC AR-15 Tactical FLAT 2.5lb Single Stage Drop-In Trigger Assembly

CMC AR-15 Tactical FLAT 2.5lb Single Stage Drop-In Trigger Assembly

www.joeboboutfitters.com

 

[budlight]

There are a couple of reasons for me using 62 grain. I tried all the match bullets up to 80 grain with neck trued brass bench rest shooting at 200 yards over the years. I came to the conclusion that no matter what you did semi auto rifles with magazine limits are never going to equal a quality bolt rifle where you can set the distance to the lands in single shot builds.

1/2 inch groups @ 200 is about my best and then you get a flyer out to make it a1/2 minute. So instead of spending money on match grade pills because you shoot a lot of rounds in 3 gun matches just perfect 10 cent a piece 62 gr HPBT. So what if you are not clover leafing at 200 yards It's still less than the size of a squirrels head. LOL

Cheap plentiful shooting is KING!

one of my 3 gun competition 20 inch piston ar's 2.5 pound trigger

 

[azarcher10x]

I'm at the total opposite end of the AR loads from your setup. The AR I shoot the most was built for predator, p-dogs, etc. At 100 yards, my shots are are almost touching. My go to powder is TAC, but I'm only pushing a 36 gr. Varmint Grenade out of a 1-12 @ 3900 suppressed. That being said, the most important thing for accuracy on almost any rifle, is a good scope and a good trigger. A good drop in Elftmann would totally change the rifle. Bushnell does have some decent scopes, but not until you get into their higher end stuff. I have an old Elite series that is a great scope. I no longer use it, though. I prefer Zeiss nowadays.

 

[DoneNOut]

Bushnell does have some decent scopes, but not until you get into their higher end stuff. I have an old Elite series that is a great scope. I no longer use it, though. I prefer Zeiss nowadays.

Bushnell Elite Tactical DMR series are fantastic. My favorite for performance at value. I have the DMR2 and just recently got the DMR3. Track like micrometers, easy eye box, and great features.