Help me understand.

[jimbires]

I shoot with guys that use FFP scopes . I've looked through them at different distances .right now the range goes from 800 - 2375 . at low power settings the reticle is so fine , I wouldn't want it . at high power settings the reticle can cover the target , causing you to lower the magnification . these scopes have drop reticles , christmas tree reticles , whatever you want to call them . when we have the elevation turret maxed out , and need to use the reticle for more elevation , they have to turn the power down because the reticle has grown and the lower moa hash marks are not in view . after being around these FFP scopes , I'm glad I have a SFP scope . I see no advantage to a FFP scope .

 

[Hand Skills]

I hate to say it guys, as I don't want to turn myself I to a FFP defender (it doesn't matter! Use what you like!), And there are some good points above.

But

If a FFP reticle covers a target at 24x, it's going to cover the target at 12x and 6x. In fact, by definition, it 'subtends' the same regardless of magnification.

Yes. At high mag, SFP is generally finer, and that's why many target shooters prefer SFP.

Also

Some FFP reticle designs work better than others at low magnification - if a guy has issues with a reticle at low mag, then he has issues with the reticle (not the focal plane). Some FFP reticles work great at 3x. As long as they have thick outer bars, no a guy can't see the fine subtensions, but it doesn't matter because if the reticle is designed for low magnification, it'll basically look like a duplex.

 

[Plinker147]

The only advantage to FFP for modern day hunting is speed. Everyone has range finders doubt many use to range. They are without a doubt faster to get off a long range shot. That's a big advantage in the tactical and PRS competition worlds. Not a huge advantage in hunting since time usually isn't a huge factor on longer shots.

Generally once someone dives into FFP and Mils they don't change back. Once your fluid with that type set up they are hard to beat.

I'm am not that fluid so I'm in the SFP- MOA group

 

[Deleted member 103481]

The reticle at low light low mag is for sure my biggest hesitation hunting. It depends on the scope and reticle thickness and illumination if it works or not. The swfa 5-20 is probably my favorite, thick, with illumination only at the center "firefly" style

my 10 yard shot on a moving buck this year was with a ffp at 6 power. It worked fine, and I didn't have enough time to be frustrated with the reticle, I just did it.

 

[schmi015]

Go FFP/Mil and don't look back. Moa has been bastardized, you got moa, shooter moa, iphy, etc. FFP scope usually have thicker bars at low power on the outer edge that act as a duplex and the finer reticle when you zoom in. I've never had an issue with a reticle covering the target with ffp. I own a 3 S&B 5-25 with the following reticles H59, P4F, and gen ii xr. And they all work wonderfully. I have a 3-27 with p4f and have had hits on targets at a mile, it does not cover the target. I have a newer S&B 5-45 with LRR-Mil reticle and it's amazing. Even my bushnell 4.5-18 with death donut in ffp is amazing.
If he's looking to shoot long range and you're looking at a NF 7-35 in ffp you can't go wrong with that, socom selected that as their optic for the new mk22 sniper rifle(Barrett mrad). I'm partial to Schmidt and Bender for the various reticles they offer.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rnoxHlCRbj0gZiwyLMuTr6a-xENKJ7PQ/view?usp=drivesdk

 

[blackburbot]

Not a fan of FFP for fast hunting situations where you only have a couple seconds of viewing time on animals in heavy bush. Shots ranging from 50-250 yards. With quick unknown locations of animals, coupled with shaded areas I have missed more game with a FFP compared to a SFP. Yes, I have ran high end Vortex, S&B scopes. When you bring the scope up quickly and the subtensions are that close together, it's easy to hold low or high.

Same with MOA vs MIL....yeah, I've been through many kegs of beer discussing the merits of both.... Hate MILs...that just me...

I live in Canada, I weigh myself in pounds, water freezes at 0C, I'm so tall in feet and inches, and drive hundreds of kilometers to go anywhere.. just like what I like and old enough to be stubborn and ignorant to the rest

 

[gohring3006]

FFP sells. There seems to be more benefit from using FFP than SFP, and that is what sells.
The FFP scope can do a lot of what a SFP can but the SFP can't do what a FFP can.

 

[Orange Dust]

I have and use both. They are on different rifles and used differently. All my 2nd fp scopes are lighter, lower powered, and used within the maximum point blank range of the rifle. For mixed terrain deer and predator rifles they are superb. My long range rifles have ffp scopes that are heavier, and higher powered. Either will work in a pinch, but each have their advantages when used in an appropriate situation. If you go ffp you will eventually end up in MILs. You can buy once and cry once. You can use a long range rifle in the woods but it is slower to operate in an environment where things can happen quickly. You can use a woods rifle in the open, but it just isn't as precise. Best to have more than one. I have never found a "do all" that was just the ticket everywhere. Everything is a compromise and what is best for you depends solely on your style of hunting. This is the reason it would be very difficult to get folks to agree one way or the other.

 

[DDWing]

If you dial elevation, based on laser ranging, go SFP. Basic med-fine crosshair is as good as it gets for reticle.
Leave FFP and all that mess in view to those who apparently can't afford laser ranging(maybe because they spent too much for their FFP scopes)..
Hold off for wind in simple inches.

I own 12 FFP scopes and 5 range finders, so there's that.

 

[Outdrmn]

Finally upgraded my scope after quite a few years. Got a Burris XTR ll new half price on eBay. For me the FFP is great in that I don't have to consider the power setting for holdover accuracy anymore. Just dial for desired fov, range target and good to go!
FFP in mil seems to be very quick and simple for me on steel and critters.

 

[skipglo]

So, My nephew bought an EDGE off of the classified here and I and I am trying to find a scope for him. What I am finding on the higher end, higher power scopes is mostly FFP, MIL scopes!!! Now help me out here.....If you are a hunter and can afford one of these scopes you can afford a range finder. I mean really, what HUNTER actually uses A FFP scope properly? And, the PRS guys.....I have never been to a match ( will fix that some day) ....don't they know the distance to target(s) already at each stage? From what I understand, you need to know the exact size of the target to be able to make the FFP reticle work properly. As far as the whole MIL/MOA ...just another way to skin the same cat.

Sorry for the stupid question...but....hunting season is over for us up here and I am running out of things to do.....now it is on to shooting steel!!

Tod

You don't need to know the EXACT SIZE....you need to know the close size. At distance it's a matter of shooting at Center ( greatest mass). What would you ever be shooting at that you didn't have a close approximation as to size? Is an Elephant 10 feet tall or 11? Practice like everything and the mil scope becomes easy.

 

[skipglo]

Finally upgraded my scope after quite a few years. Got a Burris XTR ll new half price on eBay. For me the FFP is great in that I don't have to consider the power setting for holdover accuracy anymore. Just dial for desired fov, range target and good to go!
FFP in mil seems to be very quick and simple for me on steel and critters.

And way easier......if you are the guy that walked the steel out and set it up

 

[4xforfun]

You don't need to know the EXACT SIZE....you need to know the close size. At distance it's a matter of shooting at Center ( greatest mass). What would you ever be shooting at that you didn't have a close approximation as to size? Is an Elephant 10 feet tall or 11? Practice like everything and the mil scope becomes easy.

I guess my long range shooting doesn't revolve around hunting......more about target shooting and ELR steel, so I am a little more anal about everything being EXACT. It makes sense, I guess for hunting mid range instead of dialing, but for four digit distance shooting, "close" only counts for horseshoes, bad breath, dancing, and hand grenades!!

 

[Tex_Hunter]

...these scopes have drop reticles , christmas tree reticles , whatever you want to call them . when we have the elevation turret maxed out , and need to use the reticle for more elevation , they have to turn the power down because the reticle has grown and the lower moa hash marks are not in view...

Lol wut? MOA/Mil is a fixed unit of measurement. The hashes on an SFP optic are completely irrelevant on any magnification other than the one used to calibrate them so just because you can see "more" of them is meaningless unless you compare apples to apples. If you have two identical scopes with everything else exactly equal except for one FFP and one SFP, the number of hashes visible at top magnification is going to be EXACTLY the same. If your buddy cant see enough of the tree at top magnification then his FOV is too narrow, that has literally nothing to do with SFP vs FFP though.

My Vortex Razor HD AMG has a full 8 mils of elevation holdovers visible at top magnification, thats almost 25 ft of elevation at 1000yds (in addition to 27mils of available internal elevation on the turrets). A nightforce NX8 4-32 F1 (decent entry level ELR optic) has enough FOV and reticle visible at 32x to shoot well past 1 mile between the turrets and holdovers visible on the reticle at top magnification.

Maybe your issue is with cheap FFP optics? Cant help you there.