Help me on purchase and process using mandrel expanding die

[Orange Dust]

Another thing I do that may not be a best practice, but takes the boredom out of prepping cases. You should NEVER be distracted in any way loading shells. However, In case prep, I don't see where it is a big deal. I have a bad habit of sitting upstairs with my wife watching TV. I'll take a couple of plastic bowls and some of my stuff up there. Put it in my lap and work on cases during commercials, or if we are watching one of her shows, during the show to fight boredom. She thinks when I am at home I should be where I can hear her talk, and hates it when I go out and load shells. I often even prime there or at the kitchen table to cut down on the nagging. I'm out there way too much anyway because of all the shotgun shells I have to load year round. I didn't start doing this until we found ourselves in an empty nest, and wouldn't do it if we still had children in the house. She doesn't seem to mind. I am doing something constructive and paying attention to her at the same time. But, just let me sit up there on my phone on LRH, or playing a game or something... Fireworks. she says that proves she bores me. Watch out guys!!! They are all different, but all the same...

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

some dont think its nessicary.to turn necks because the chamber at the neck area should still give enough clearance if saami chamber.. so when a round is chambered it shouldnt ever touch no matter what ..

they do have a point ...

but , if you run an expander mandrell down the neck. what is preventing the shouler from moving sideways ... if, there was a competition type die that supported the body while the expender was expanding and at the same time centering the neck opening axis to the center of the body axis .. i am not familiar with a die that does that

so i choose to turn necks .. fireforming turned necks to line everything up .. then you know those 2 axis are lined up .. you will feel more even sizing pressure withing the lot . i would guess the tension is affected by the same factors

i think most people that dont turn necks , havent yet .. and the people do, have done it correclty once .. which is enough to see how different brass can be

 

[Orange Dust]

some dont think its nessicary.to turn necks because the chamber at the neck area should still give enough clearance if saami chamber.. so when a round is chambered it shouldnt ever touch no matter what ..

they do have a point ...

but , if you run an expander mandrell down the neck. what is preventing the shouler from moving sideways ... if, there was a competition type die that supported the body while the expender was expanding and at the same time centering the neck opening axis to the center of the body axis .. i am not familiar with a die that does that

so i choose to turn necks .. fireforming turned necks to line everything up .. then you know those 2 axis are lined up .. you will feel more even sizing pressure withing the lot . i would guess the tension is affected by the same factors

i think most people that dont turn necks , havent yet .. and the people do, have done it correclty once .. which is enough to see how different brass can be

I would agree completely. I do feel it is of benefit not only to neck tension but to accuracy too. I think the benefit is the same in a SAAMI chamber. My reasoning is this: If you don't turn the necks in a SAAMI chamber, when the cartridge fires the case neck instantly becomes an obround hole with a lot of pressure on it. Cannot possibly apply even pressure on the bullet in my thinking, especially a LD bullet with a long boattail. May possibly contribute to the reason why some rifles don't shoot LD bullets well. I also learned long ago it is easy to have too much of a good thing. In a loose chamber (SAAMI) don't overdue it. Less is more. Just knock off the high side. If you turn enough to clean up the neck accuracy can easily go the other way. It's really neither hard to do, and doesn't take much time. So many people that haven't tried it think it is some kind of VOODOO that only the bench rest guys with tight chambers should worry about. Experience has shown the benifit is just as great in a standard chamber. If you follow my case prep you will see what I mean in the first batch. The first time you run the cases through the expander die every case will feel different when you run them through the press. When you do it the second time they will all feel the same. That will sell you on it even before you go to the range with a chrono and targets.

 

[DUSTY NOGGIN]

im way too poor to buy one for every rifle that i load for ..but if i had the money .. i would lock a turner down and leave it in the dies case and never adjust it... for all future brass

 

[BrentM]

I use Redding and rcbs comp dies with the bushings. I use Sinclair mandrel. I size the brass in the fl bushing die .001 under the mandrel size. Next I size up using the mandrel. Done.
Pm me if you like.

 

[misterc01]

Before turning a the necks, I check the size at four point see if there is any variation I need to remove to get a uniform neck thickness, and then just enough to get it the same al around. I use a bushing to take care of the case and neck, using a bushing to give me the neck tension I want. So far, works for me. I find I end p with a few items I don't use when I try things for "testing" so I try to be SURE before I buy. Sometime I can borrow something to try, but them I am obligated to lend back, and so far thing have come back intact!

 

[High Desert Ducks]

I prep brass on a Dillon 550. 1st position deprime, 2nd empty, 3rd Redding type S; sizing .001 under the mandrel size, 4th carbide turning mandrel. I don't turn necks and run out comes in at less than .001 total run out. I use Hornady one shot for lube and try to get a little in the necks. I use a carbide mandrel in case the lube inside the neck is a little light, and due to the volume. Has worked great, groups usually between .3-.5 MOA. I used to just do this for my completion ammo, but it has worked so well and sped the process up I do all my ammo with this process. I do think I get away without the neck turning by using high quality brass. (Alpha or Lapua) also the .001 under turning / mandrel has seemed to extend the brass life as well (I anneal every 3 firings)

 

[SealT5]

I use the Sinclair expander die. IMO steel is just fine. Zero issues in 3 years using them. I also have the NT4000 so this gives me 2 different sized mandrels. FWIW I have the carbide 6mm turning mandrel and could not tell you that I see any difference in performance. But what do I know. I'm just a truck driver

 

[rickjoty]

Another thing I do that may not be a best practice, but takes the boredom out of prepping cases. You should NEVER be distracted in any way loading shells. However, In case prep, I don't see where it is a big deal. I have a bad habit of sitting upstairs with my wife watching TV. I'll take a couple of plastic bowls and some of my stuff up there. Put it in my lap and work on cases during commercials, or if we are watching one of her shows, during the show to fight boredom. She thinks when I am at home I should be where I can hear her talk, and hates it when I go out and load shells. I often even prime there or at the kitchen table to cut down on the nagging. I'm out there way too much anyway because of all the shotgun shells I have to load year round. I didn't start doing this until we found ourselves in an empty nest, and wouldn't do it if we still had children in the house. She doesn't seem to mind. I am doing something constructive and paying attention to her at the same time. But, just let me sit up there on my phone on LRH, or playing a game or something... Fireworks. she says that proves she bores me. Watch out guys!!! They are all different, but all the same...

Similarly, I have a folding work table that I plop in front of the TV. Sit on the couch. Plug in my scale. Work next to my bride.

 

[jrg]

I typically use normal rcbs or redding full length sizing dies. I am going to give using a Sinclair expanding mandrel die set a shot. Here is what I think I need to buy and how I think it works. Please correct me if im wrong.

List to buy: Sounds like I will need any sizer type die and a decent bullet seater die (I will likely buy a redding 6.5prc die set). I will need to buy a decapping die. I will need to buy the Sinclair mandrel expander die and the size mandrel I will use (in this case a 6.5mm).

Process: Remove the decapping/sizer stem from the Redding full length sizing die. Deprime all the brass with the depriming die. Full length size all brass using lube and the redding full length sizing die. Then expand the necks using the Sinclair expanding die with the appropriate mandrel. Then move on to the rest of the reloading process.

Question 1: Are the carbide expanding mandrels worth it (50$ versus 10$ for steel)?
Question 2: Am I missing something else I need to buy?
Question 3: Is this process how I should be doing it?

I would recommend the Redding Type "S" F.L. Bushing Die so you can control your neck tension. I also use the Sinclair 6mm Mandrel, it works very well for me

 

[Frank Kalisz]

I am very pleased using a custom honed Forster FL Die, with neck of the die honed at factory to only 4 thou less than final diameter with bullet inserted. I use this die without its expander spindle.

This limits springback when I insert my separate mandrel die.

 

[Philip J Theodhor]

I typically use normal rcbs or redding full length sizing dies. I am going to give using a Sinclair expanding mandrel die set a shot. Here is what I think I need to buy and how I think it works. Please correct me if im wrong.

List to buy: Sounds like I will need any sizer type die and a decent bullet seater die (I will likely buy a redding 6.5prc die set). I will need to buy a decapping die. I will need to buy the Sinclair mandrel expander die and the size mandrel I will use (in this case a 6.5mm).

Process: Remove the decapping/sizer stem from the Redding full length sizing die. Deprime all the brass with the depriming die. Full length size all brass using lube and the redding full length sizing die. Then expand the necks using the Sinclair expanding die with the appropriate mandrel. Then move on to the rest of the reloading process.

Question 1: Are the carbide expanding mandrels worth it (50$ versus 10$ for steel)?
Question 2: Am I missing something else I need to buy?
Question 3: Is this process how I should be doing it?

I use the Sinclair expanding die body for .17 - .338 caliber with the neck turning expander mandrel #749-001-179.( 6.5 Creedmoor) I use this die in the following manner. The Sinclair Steel Expander mandrel is just barely kissing the case necks brass ID which is soft by nature and as you will see is not in my opinion a cause for concern. I feel therefore that the steel expanding mandrel will last a very long time without any undue wear.
1) Deprime brass using a Lee universal depriming die.
2) Tumble brass in steel media 1/2 hour. This will get the excess powder and grit out of your cases.
3) Dry cases by hand to remove any accumulated water and set aside.
4) When dry FL resize using a match grade die set with the correct diameter bushing.
5) Bump shoulder back -.002" with Redding body die and competition shell holder set.
6) Determine if case necks need to be trimmed and if so trim to length.
*** New /Virgin brass only use the Sinclair Expander body and the .001" neck turning mandrel expand up the cases necks ID. (this will now insure that my case will fit on my neck turning tools arbor) As an added benefit it also will reduce case neck run out before you turn your case necks OD. This is very important as if your case is not running true in your turning tool ,your case necks OD will also run out and this will lead to several issues with T.I.R.
You will not need the Sinclair Expander die /mandrel combination once your brass cases have been turned. This step is performed only once.
Now that your cases necks have been turned ( I usually remove .0002"- .0005") Any more will again lead to neck tension issues and you will have to purchase a neck bushing at least -.001" smaller to maintain a uniform bullet jump unless you want to check and adjust each bullet that feels a little loose when being seated.
7) Place cases in a rotating tumbler. Add steel pin media,dawn and lemishine. Then add cases and tumble for 1 1/2 - 2 hours.
8) Drain and wipe brass . Then place in a case dryer@104 Degrees F for one hour.
8) Anneal cleaned and dried brass . I perform this step during my reloading process in order to remove excessive case neck hardness caused from the round being shot. I know that some people only anneal every 3-4 reloads but I perform this task every time. Note by tumbling before annealing of the case neck I am assured that all foreign matter has been removed and will not be cooked or burned into the brass.
After this process the case necks show a slightly bluish to grey brown color I know that they have been annealed so I allow that slight discoloration on the cases necks.
9) Examine and sort cases by weight.
10) Continue the rest of the reloading process by hand seating the primers, adding the correct powder charge,and finally seating your bullet for the correct jump factor.
11) Indicate each bullet and adjust for a T.I.R. of less than .0005" - .0007"
I know that this may seem like a lot of work and it is but I assure you the end result and satisfaction are worth it,at least to me.
Let your targets during your trigger time validate all your labor!
OBTW the Sinclair Expander Mandrel set up will also remove any dings that can happen during the reloading process. It will allow you to salvage dented case mouths easily.
I hope this explanation will guide you in the correct manner and addresses your concerns !

 

[Rusty85]

I use the SS on calibers I don't use all the much and carbide on the ones I use more often.

 

[Philip J Theodhor]

I use the SS on calibers I don't use all the much and carbide on the ones I use more often.

I've found that you can repair a dented case mouth by hand just by inserting the expander mandrel into the cases mouth. It only requires a tiny bit of pressure to bring the case necks ID back. I also found that even when using the Sinclair expander mandrel #749-001-183 in my .30 caliber chambered rounds you really do not need but a very slight pressure on your press handle in order to expand the ID by +.001". So I myself feel very comfortable using the Sinclair Steel Expanding Mandrels and IMHO can not justify the added expense of a carbide mandrel even though as a retired Tool and Die Class A machinist I appreciate the labor intensive costs incurred during the manufacturing process.