Help me figure out why I'm blowing primers

[Mallardhammer]

Your initial question in the thread "help me figure out why I'm blowing primers" has been answered a dozen times, including by yourself. Your 2 grains over max by some data and 4 by another! Thank god a blown primer is all that happened. Never in my Work ups have I gone from no pressure signs in the case head area, to primers in the mag box with nothing in between. Your theory of seating depth and case fill ratio compared to published data confuses me? Read your manual again. Set it down for a week, and read it yet again.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Loading rifle rounds: Being I have hand loaded ammo for 57 years. If you are blowing out primers out, you load is to hot. That either to much power or a mag primer instead of a large rifle primes. Different reloading hand books call out different primes. So be very careful about that. The other is the case could be to long. That would cause the bolt being very hard to open. If you are loading max load after a time the primer pocket will get to large to hold a primer any longer before your case neck splits.

Here several years ago i purchase a 500 Smith in a 4" barrel. Before I purchase that pistol I did some read about the round. They had switch from Large Pistol primers to large rifle primes. I built 2 loads for it. Both were H110 power, Primers were Fed. 210's, A Horndy 350 grain bullet. Max powder load is 43.7 gr. It develop velocity of 2015. Second Load: Fed. 210 primer, powder load is 44.4 gr. of H110 with a Barnes 325 grain bullet. Velocity is 2101 fps., 3186 Ft.Pd.Eng.

Loading rifle rounds that hold 70 gr+. You can generally increase power load by .5 gr. at a time. Watch the primers to see what going on. If you cratering the primer you are to hot. Flatten primers is time to stop putting powder in the case. You have max it out. Possible to move the bullet back some, depending where your bullet is placed. To tight to the rifling also cause to built pressure up very quickly.

Mike

 

[smithjasona1978]

Loading rifle rounds: Being I have hand loaded ammo for 57 years. If you are blowing out primers out, you load is to hot. That either to much power or a mag primer instead of a large rifle primes. Different reloading hand books call out different primes. So be very careful about that. The other is the case could be to long. That would cause the bolt being very hard to open. If you are loading max load after a time the primer pocket will get to large to hold a primer any longer before your case neck splits.

Here several years ago i purchase a 500 Smith in a 4" barrel. Before I purchase that pistol I did some read about the round. They had switch from Large Pistol primers to large rifle primes. I built 2 loads for it. Both were H110 power, Primers were Fed. 210's, A Horndy 350 grain bullet. Max powder load is 43.7 gr. It develop velocity of 2015. Second Load: Fed. 210 primer, powder load is 44.4 gr. of H110 with a Barnes 325 grain bullet. Velocity is 2101 fps., 3186 Ft.Pd.Eng.

Loading rifle rounds that hold 70 gr+. You can generally increase power load by .5 gr. at a time. Watch the primers to see what going on. If you cratering the primer you are to hot. Flatten primers is time to stop putting powder in the case. You have max it out. Possible to move the bullet back some, depending where your bullet is placed. To tight to the rifling also cause to built pressure up very quickly.

Mike

That is exactly why im asking. As I said in the beginning of my post, I examined every single case after firing with a magnifying glass. The primers looked fine. No craters. No flattening around the edges. The primer of the case before the charge that nlew the primer looked exactly like the primer from the lowest load . I examined them for over an hour after I got back from the range.

 

[Mallardhammer]

If your not asking what is blowing primers, it is wildly unclear what you are asking.

 

[Jluck]

I gotta stop buying used rifles.

 

[Skimbleshanks]

If you aren't getting the velocity from the powders you have tried, shortening the freebore by loading longer than 3.56" isn't the thing to do. Loading close to or over max powder charge doesnt leave much wiggle room. Shortening the bullets run up to the lands is making pressure go up further. Go back to the manuals, pick a new powder and start there. The 4350s and 4831s are the classic powders for that cartridge. Wait I just re read some of your posts. Are you trying to make a 208 grain bullet go 180 grain velocities????

 

[rsnell]

Keep things simple since you are new to reloading. You have the 10th edition of the Hornady manual and it has loads for the 208 grain ELD match bullet. This data does not include R 33 as one of the powders so do not use it.

The Hornady data was developed using the Hornady case. The brass from different manufacturers has different volumes so stick with the Hornady brass.

This data was also developed using Federal 215 primers. Since different manufacturers primers have different characteristics, change to Federal 215 primers. Primers should be seated between 0.003 and 0.005 inches below the base of the brass.

Change your powder to IMR 4350 or H4831.

STAY WITHIN PUBLISHED DATA UNTIL YOU HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE.

 

[yorke-1]

I gotta stop buying used rifles.

This was my first thought too.

To the OP, you're too new to reloading to be experimenting. Load all your ammo using published loads and don't deviate from those. If you don't get the accuracy or velocity you want switch components.

Just because you aren't seeing pressure signs doesn't mean they aren't there, it just means you aren't seeing them. Do yourself, your gun and everyone around you a favor and stop experimenting with reloads until you know what you're doing.

 

[Flare]

As someone said earlier if you're using 208 grain bullets you will not get 180 grain velocities They will be slower

Corey

 

[Mike Matteson]

Going back to hard bolt opening. Check your case length. my 25/06s I have to be careful on case length with that round. Love the 25/06. The only other thing is bullet touching the rifle lands.
The other is are possible trying to use small rifle primers? I don't see how they would fit, or stay in. I have blown primers a couple of times. That generally only comes from Psi over 70,000 lbs. I know that bench rest primes are hotter than normal primes. Or I should say Federal bench rest primers are hotter than their Fed 210 primes. Unless something has change that I am not aware of the Fed. 210 primers are the coldest primers on the market.
I generally develop loads using 26" barrels using slower powers with higher powder charge. Figuring the power burn through the entire barrel length. Shorter barrels I step up to a little faster burning rate powder and again using a Fed 210 primer.

the other is take your rifle down to a gunsmith with fire rounds and primer to let him look at it.

Here some examples: A late friend of mind develop loads for his 338 Win Mag in a Rug. Mark 11 with a 24" barrel. It kick the hell out of me, because I was that shot it for groups. Put in 1.5 lbs triger in it that beat the 8 lbs triger that came with it. Loads bullet grains from 175 to 250 grains bullet. Barns, Noslers, Horndys. The fast of them all was 200 gr. Nosler. That was with a Fed-210 with Winchester 760 powder. We got 3230 fps/4633 e. It was a tack driver to boot. The other rounds were from 175 gr. to 250 gr bullets. 175 gr. Barns @ 3330, 180gr. nosler 3270. Most use a WLRM primer except for 2 using Fed -210 primers.

A few years later I was able to purchase the rifle from him. I just left in the gun save for several years. I came across a gunsmith that built muzzle brake that tame that down to a little kitty cat. Love the rifle now. Use it last year in Africa last year. That 200 grain did the job.

 

[yorke-1]

Going back to hard bolt opening. Check your case length. my 25/06s I have to be careful on case length with that round. Love the 25/06. The only other thing is bullet touching the rifle lands.
The other is are possible trying to use small rifle primers? I don't see how they would fit, or stay in. I have blown primers a couple of times. That generally only comes from Psi over 70,000 lbs. I know that bench rest primes are hotter than normal primes. Or I should say Federal bench rest primers are hotter than their Fed 210 primes. Unless something has change that I am not aware of the Fed. 210 primers are the coldest primers on the market.
I generally develop loads using 26" barrels using slower powers with higher powder charge. Figuring the power burn through the entire barrel length. Shorter barrels I step up to a little faster burning rate powder and again using a Fed 210 primer.

the other is take your rifle down to a gunsmith with fire rounds and primer to let him look at it.

Here some examples: A late friend of mind develop loads for his 338 Win Mag in a Rug. Mark 11 with a 24" barrel. It kick the hell out of me, because I was that shot it for groups. Put in 1.5 lbs triger in it that beat the 8 lbs triger that came with it. Loads bullet grains from 175 to 250 grains bullet. Barns, Noslers, Horndys. The fast of them all was 200 gr. Nosler. That was with a Fed-210 with Winchester 760 powder. We got 3230 fps/4633 e. It was a tack driver to boot. The other rounds were from 175 gr. to 250 gr bullets. 175 gr. Barns @ 3330, 180gr. nosler 3270. Most use a WLRM primer except for 2 using Fed -210 primers.

A few years later I was able to purchase the rifle from him. I just left in the gun save for several years. I came across a gunsmith that built muzzle brake that tame that down to a little kitty cat. Love the rifle now. Use it last year in Africa last year. That 200 grain did the job.

Please don't ever give reloading advice again. There are so many inaccuracies in your post that it's concerning just reading it. Information like that is what leads new reloaders (like the OP here) to make mistakes which will lead to injuries and damaged equipment.

 

[gator378]

I was using a chrono. Velocity was higher than my book max, but my length was a quarter inch longer and I was using about 2 extra grains of powder because of that extra space. Isn't that the point of these new short fat cartridges? To be able to use a long bullet and not have it reduce case capacity? I have a digital mic. Ill definitely be doing a before and after measurement next time I'm at the range. Thanks for the advice.

I always check against the Chrono. Velocity and pressure are related. If your getting high velocity over book values you will also have high pressure. Laws of thermodynamics apply. Degree in chemistry and two years of Physical chemistry.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Please don't ever give reloading advice again. There are so many inaccuracies in your post that it's concerning just reading it. Information like that is what leads new reloaders (like the OP here) to make mistakes which will lead to injuries and damaged equipment.

I gave Vel. Fpe. and grains of bullets. I also stated primers and types. I didn't give grains of powders. I did state increase rate of increase on larger cases that hold 70 grains or more of powder to start with. After shooting the max load given by the reloading manual Then working on these loads, I started out with .1 of a grain after shooting the high powder load in the manual. Have any ideal how long it takes to get to max powder loads with different primes, cases, bullets. Especially loading 5 round sets. Equals 250 rounds. Then there change of bullets, and primers. That can take you beyond the barrel life. So then you start all over again with a new barrel to figure best load, Vel, FPE. for groups. Then down range to target out to 500 yards. I am not a long range shooter out to 1000 to 1200 yards. In those days we didn't have range finders. We had to get out with a chain and do the foot work to determine actual distant. There wasn't rifle ranges where I live back then either.

My late friend and I have discuss loading info with the people that write the reloading manuals.

The other is I am Graphic Dyslexia so the command of the english lanuage and detecting mistake is very hard for me. I do my best.

He was giving problems and others may run into this again. I also stated take the rifle to the gunsmith too, with case and primer in hand. I have seen bad head space, cut cases in both rifle and shotgun. I have seen where people mixed up shot bushing with power bushing, and the effects of them.

Long cases also create high pressures, wrong primers can create major problems. Not to forget, bullet extending into the rifle lands.

The hole ideal is to: getting the bullet started into barrel and still being held by the case neck then down the barrel to the target. I had to start by blacking the bullet to determine where the the lands were. In the olden days. Back in the days there wasn't many thing to cut necks.

I have work on loads with 223, 5.56x 45, 220 swift, 243, 25/06. 270, 6.5 x 55, 264 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 308, 30/06, 308 normal mag, 300 win mag, 300 H & H Mag, 338 Win Mag, and 375 H & H Mag. Not to mention a 22 mag that I had to cut out over 1/8" out of the forearm of the stock to get it to group. Setting down from a 3" + group to under an 1" at a 100 yards.

Most stock I build myself, being that I am left hander.

On the 500 Smith loads now are stated powder loads and primer in reloading manuals. that why that info was given out.

Mike

 

[smithjasona1978]

Keep things simple since you are new to reloading. You have the 10th edition of the Hornady manual and it has loads for the 208 grain ELD match bullet. This data does not include R 33 as one of the powders so do not use it.

The Hornady data was developed using the Hornady case. The brass from different manufacturers has different volumes so stick with the Hornady brass.

This data was also developed using Federal 215 primers. Since different manufacturers primers have different characteristics, change to Federal 215 primers. Primers should be seated between 0.003 and 0.005 inches below the base of the brass.

Change your powder to IMR 4350 or H4831.

STAY WITHIN PUBLISHED DATA UNTIL YOU HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE.

The r33 load data came from aliant powder website.