Help me decide: Minimum caliber for larger NA game

[greenejc]

Yeah, I'm not looking for something to do it all. More meant, since I already had the 6.5creed, what would fill that gap on the upper end for any scenario where the 6.5 isn't quite enough. I think .300wm answered my question

I'd go with the 30-06 with the new loads that are out there. Get it from either Remington or Browning. With a 24 to 26" tube and some of the Buffalo Bore loads, you can easily kill elk at 5 to 6 hundred yards if you're accurate enough, and its more than adequate for bear. But my go to big bore rifle is a .35 Whelen. And yes, with some of the heavier loads out there it will work past 800 yards. Factory ammo is hard to find for this though. Buffalo bore makes a 180 grain load in 30-06 that has a M/V of 2850 fps nominal from a 24" barrel, and there are a number of manufacturers that post velocities with the 180 grain load that are past 2750fps. Also, recoil is low enough that you can shoot it in longer range sessions. If you decide to reload, it is easy to load and get accurate ammo that way, and I've killed deer with it past 450 yards numerous times. Everything here also applies to the 300 Win Mag, except you add about 200fps to your M/V and about 25% more recoil. If barrel life is going to be an issue, go with the -06, though. I hunt with the -06, the 300WM and the Whelen. Also, both the 30-06 and the 300WM can be found in any mom and pop store that sells ammo. That's not true for a lot of cartridges other than the .308, 30-30, or 7mm Rem mag. So if you lost your ammo at the airport in Nowhere Alaska but there's a hardware store in town that sells ammo, you can probably find some there for any of these calibers. They had 30-06 in Macedonia when I was guarding the border there.

 

[WildRose]

30-06 is a great caliber and does not have a lot of recoil. And has tons of bullet weight options.

There's some wisdom here. Out to 400yds the 06 is still hard to beat. For larger game at longer distances, step up to the 300 PRC or 300wm and just be done with it.

Even the largest bears can easily be taken with the 300wm and the right bullet.

For a dedicated large/dangerous game rifle, the 375 Ruger is really the ticket.

 

[WildRose]

270 -30-06 should take care of all North American Game. You should be able to get well within 100 yards of a bear or any other game.

As far as Africa, guided as a matter of safety you won't be using a bolt pump or auto more then likely a double gun chambered in a large caliber. You don't work your bolt, or a jam or malfunction occurs in a pump or auto you may have gone on your last hunt.

I have a 6.5 creed as well. I've killed deer with a 270 grave yard deer 500 to 600 yards and with a 30 cal up to 900 yards. Nobody toted a bullet.

Really rare to see double rifles in Africa these days except perhaps when hunting Elephant or Rino and in those cases the PH is most likely going to provide it for you if you ask ahead of time.

They definitely prefer you use a controlled round feed bolt over push feed bolt actions however.

There's not a camp on the continent though you won't be welcome in with a CRF bolt gun chambered in one of the .375's.

 

[WildRose]

Hmm, let's all the Alaska.gov, Dept of Fish and Game,

Apparently 200 grain bullet is suggested for Alaskan peninsula for the big bears. That rules out anything below 30 Cal. They recommend, yeah we knew a long time ago, 30-06!

Guess what the average load in most 300 mags duplicate? The 30-06.
Ask yourself if the average 300 mag load good enough for you? Probably yes.

Had a client/buddy many years ago that guided a lot of grizzly/BB hunts who felt the same way. He'd rather have a client bring a 7RM or 06 they were confident and competent shooting than any of the larger magnums they weren't.

 

[Dragoon300]

New guy here. Hear me out and throw your opinion in the ring. I own a Bergara B14 HMR in 6.5 Creed. Has been an excellent gun, exactly what I was looking for, zero issue. Casual weekend bench shooting, can also drop a deer.

Now I'm in the market for something bigger or a step up in being adequate for larger game. I don't plan on any thick-skinned African hunts in the near future, so assume just North America, probably nothing more than bear/moose.

Thoughts:

• I already have a 6.5 Creed, so I don't really need something specifically to overlap with that. I'm good up to deer, possibly elk, and looking for something in the elk and up range. Maybe I'm just a wimp, but heavy recoil does take some of the enjoyment out of it for me. I prefer something that I can comfortably practice with, sight in, multiple shots, and never be already preparing myself for the slam when about to squeeze off a shot at game. For this I love the 6.5.
• I am not turned off by the chassis/AR-style look of some modern rifles. I do appreciate the modularity/adjustability, and adjusting cheek weld or length of pull is a must. Function over traditional appearance for me.
• To meet some of my recoil requirements and to not get into the heavy hitting rounds, I'm content to accept that energy will only be high enough for my larger game targets out to 3-400 yards. At some point down the road, it will probably get a suppressor, so overall optimum barrel length is a factor.

Question: Lightest recoiling caliber, available in a gun model that is somewhat adjustable, at least minimally capable of ethical moose/bear shot at 300 yds? For sake of argument, ignore cost (of ammo), ammo availability, and assume factory loads. Not looking to build anything at this time, so a factory option in gun model and ammo.

I realize all of these are giving up something in some area or another, but options I have researched:

• 6.5 PRC – really that much better than 6.5 Creed? A lot of overlap with what I already have, borderline good enough for moose. I do really like the recoil, ballistics, and lots of gun options. I hear people shooting elk at 1000yd with them, and while not something I plan to do, does make me think a good shot at 300 would probably drop a moose.
• .280 AI – Hard to find options chambered in this, can get an Xbolt
• 6.8 Western – Really like what I'm hearing about this one, meets a lot of my requirements, hard to find a gun I like chambered in it, also available in xbolt. Doesn't bother me that it's a new fad, and ammo is available.
• 28 Nosler or .300 PRC – Incredibly capable rounds, I doubt I would enjoy shooting it very often, considering recoil. Would give me some ability to tackle even larger game. Maybe I could get manageable with a brake?
• Sig cross/.277 fury – I like the portability/adjustability of the rifle, and think the cartridge is intriguing, but probably not much more adequate than my 6.5 for bigger game? Big pro here is the ballistics out of a 16" barrel. Even with a suppressor, a very small/compact package, plus folding.

Props if you actually read this far. All opinions welcome.

Based on what you have asked, 7mm / 284 caliber is a good place to be. I would suggest the 7mm WSM as a pretty good round for your requirements.

 

[Justice1327]

Per your specifications ... 300 PRC w/break

 

[.280AI Freak-Nasty]

Back to the drawing board.... I had essentially wrote off the 300PRC. Liked everything about it, but had decided any reasonable-weight gun would probably have too high of recoil, even suppressed/braked. Now maybe not?

The 300 PRC really does have reasonable recoil. The CA Carbon barrel guns are light and, with the break on them, they really are nice shooters.

 

[Wetwrk]

There's a reason a lot of outfitters have banned 6.5mm cartridges for use on elk recently. I've personally killed one with a creedmoor at 550 yards and wouldn't do it again unless I had no other cartridge options.

I shot my cow last season at 550 with a 143ELDX in my Creed. I agree with you, it felt like it needs a bit more pepper past 500. I traded that creedmore for a 6.5PRC so we'll see how it preforms this year. Hoping it loves those 156 Bergers going 3000+.-WW

 

[ATH]

300 win mag....200 grain accubonds. Covers everything you're talking about. If kick is a little much for ya, put a brake on it. If you set it up right....you may just not need that 6.5 anymore.... good luck!

Haven't read 12 pages of posts but this right here was my solution. In a 12.5lb gun I didn't brake it. I just re-built the rifle to 10lbs, I put a brake on at least for load workup, may or may not keep it on in the field we shall see. This 300WM was my first centerfire rifle because I felt it was my limit without a brake. The the 200AB it a legit long range gun and the bullet performs on everything. I really hope they someday come back in stock...

I've tried everything...I've got a 338 Edge which is a serious step up for >600 yards but it's heavy. That's why I lightened the 300WM, I didn't need two heavy long range rifles. My next step down was a 243AI, I love it but it left something to be desired at >300 yards on game so I just built a 6.5-06AI. No factory ammo there but that will probably be my do-all rifle going forward, if I'm not hunting elk or bigger. No brake and not 300WM recoil.

 

[Cory Bache]

New guy here. Hear me out and throw your opinion in the ring. I own a Bergara B14 HMR in 6.5 Creed. Has been an excellent gun, exactly what I was looking for, zero issue. Casual weekend bench shooting, can also drop a deer.

Now I'm in the market for something bigger or a step up in being adequate for larger game. I don't plan on any thick-skinned African hunts in the near future, so assume just North America, probably nothing more than bear/moose.

Thoughts:

• I already have a 6.5 Creed, so I don't really need something specifically to overlap with that. I'm good up to deer, possibly elk, and looking for something in the elk and up range. Maybe I'm just a wimp, but heavy recoil does take some of the enjoyment out of it for me. I prefer something that I can comfortably practice with, sight in, multiple shots, and never be already preparing myself for the slam when about to squeeze off a shot at game. For this I love the 6.5.
• I am not turned off by the chassis/AR-style look of some modern rifles. I do appreciate the modularity/adjustability, and adjusting cheek weld or length of pull is a must. Function over traditional appearance for me.
• To meet some of my recoil requirements and to not get into the heavy hitting rounds, I'm content to accept that energy will only be high enough for my larger game targets out to 3-400 yards. At some point down the road, it will probably get a suppressor, so overall optimum barrel length is a factor.

Question: Lightest recoiling caliber, available in a gun model that is somewhat adjustable, at least minimally capable of ethical moose/bear shot at 300 yds? For sake of argument, ignore cost (of ammo), ammo availability, and assume factory loads. Not looking to build anything at this time, so a factory option in gun model and ammo.

I realize all of these are giving up something in some area or another, but options I have researched:

• 6.5 PRC – really that much better than 6.5 Creed? A lot of overlap with what I already have, borderline good enough for moose. I do really like the recoil, ballistics, and lots of gun options. I hear people shooting elk at 1000yd with them, and while not something I plan to do, does make me think a good shot at 300 would probably drop a moose.
• .280 AI – Hard to find options chambered in this, can get an Xbolt
• 6.8 Western – Really like what I'm hearing about this one, meets a lot of my requirements, hard to find a gun I like chambered in it, also available in xbolt. Doesn't bother me that it's a new fad, and ammo is available.
• 28 Nosler or .300 PRC – Incredibly capable rounds, I doubt I would enjoy shooting it very often, considering recoil. Would give me some ability to tackle even larger game. Maybe I could get manageable with a brake?
• Sig cross/.277 fury – I like the portability/adjustability of the rifle, and think the cartridge is intriguing, but probably not much more adequate than my 6.5 for bigger game? Big pro here is the ballistics out of a 16" barrel. Even with a suppressor, a very small/compact package, plus folding.

Props if you actually read this far. All opinions welcome.

Rather than buying a new rifle, spend that money on ammo for the one you have. Shoot consistently from now until hunting season and the rifle you have now is plenty for any north American game.

 

[Cory Bache]

Rather than buying a new rifle, spend that money on ammo for the one you have. Shoot consistently from now until hunting season and the rifle you have now is plenty for any north American game.

To add to this. I have shot a few deer with a 22lr, (what's that saying you guys have on here?) DRT, one shot between the lookers and off to the freezer we go.

 

[cvixx]

You have been hitting all around the best, if older, calibers..,the .270 Winchester and 8mm Remington. Newer is not always better. Based on you intended game, either one will work. If really after BIG game se a .338 Winchester.

I am nearing 80, as you can probably tell, and remember when these were the best calibers available. Not much has really changed…Semper Fi compadre.

 

[griz375]

Nothing beats a long, practical, repeatable track record. In the Canadian north, indigenous hunters have been using the 303 British loads, in Lee Enfields to hunt everything up to polar bears... for a hundred years!

The Canadian Rangers have now switched from 303s to short barrelled 308 Sakos.

Meet the Canadian Rangers’ new Sako rifle, built to defend against large carnivores, extreme temperatures

The Canadian Rangers are finally getting new rifles to replace the aging current model, the WWII-era Lee-Enfield No. 4

nationalpost.com

Since no one really expects the volunteer force to fend off Russians (although asserting Canadian sovereignty is a big part of their role), they mostly defend their communities against marauding predators, which they do, all the time!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/nunavut-igloolik-polar-bear-lynne-quassa-hunt-photo-1.4676205

Get a 308 Winchester and call it done.

I also live in the north, and realize rural canadians are limited not only to whats available, but what the Trudeau and the Queen approve of. I own a couple 308's and a 303. Great cartridges but neither are my first choice for big toothy critters.

 

[Scythe]

"assume factory loads"

I'm not sure I follow your reply but I'll take a shot at it.

I don't shoot factory loads in the SAUM and I don't push it to the edge with my reloads. Brass and barrel life reasons