Have 30-06 change to .300wm?

[MudRunner2005]

The 300 mag really does have quite a bit more poop at long range. Especially with the heavier, longer bullets - they start to eat up case capacity pretty quick with the '06. Definitely step up to the magnum for kills at that range.

Feenix, that data might be wrong for the 270 Ackley...I don't even think a 7 STW could push a 175 grain to 3100. Good lookin charts though, great way to compare different loads/cartridges.

My 7STW load with 180 Berger VLD's is right at 2900 fps MV. I'd like to see the 7STW with Berger 168 VLD's...My load is at 2925 fps MV.

I would like to see the .280 AI calculated into that with the Berger 168 VLD's. As well as the 7RM with the 168 VLD's.

My 7RM 180 VLD load is right at 2830 fps MV.
My 7RM 168 VLD load is at 3,000.

I'm curious to see how these numbers stack up on the chart.

Seriously, no sarcasm, I would love to see how they do on the 1K chart in your ballistic program.

 

[Mike 338]

I am seeing that the .300 wm seems to be what is nessesry and you touch on another topic as I am now shooting the Tikka T3 and was thinking of going to another T3 in .300WM. I have read that some people are having issues with seating them out far and being restricted by the mag with the T3. Would it be a better idea to go to the .300WSM instead .

sorry for making it more complicated but I do like my Tikkas

I'm not sure about the WSM magazine length but if the Sako A-7 and the Tikka T3 magazine dimensions are the same, the max OAL for the 300 Win is right at 3.325" which is about .015" less than most manual recommended COL. The 178 A-max fits O.K. but you'll never get long bullets into that magazine unless the bottom metal is modified. I'm thinking 185 grain bullets might be all you can get into that magazine. CDI (CDiPrecision Gunworks) offers a solution to this issue if you want to shoot long bullets. I believe the twist on the Tikka 300 is 11:1 so you don't want to go with real long bullets anyway.

 

[kcebcj]

Originally Posted by kcebcj

So if you want to get out to 850 yards the 300 WM would be an excellent choice in my opinion. Just make sure the mag box will let you set the big bullets out where they perform the best.

I am seeing that the .300 wm seems to be what is nessesry and you touch on another topic as I am now shooting the Tikka T3 and was thinking of going to another T3 in .300WM. I have read that some people are having issues with seating them out far and being restricted by the mag with the T3. Would it be a better idea to go to the .300WSM instead .

sorry for making it more complicated but I do like my Tikkas

I personally would not trade a 300WM for a 300WSM. The standard OAL for the 300 is 3.34 but if you want to use like the Accubond 200gr or the Berger 210gr or heavier the mag box should be a minimum of 3.8 inches if you want to get it all the way to the lands. Of course where that is depends on the chamber but the big bullets are long.

Berger recommends a twist rate for the 210gr VLD of 1 in 11 or faster. So there you go...good luck.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

The 300 mag really does have quite a bit more poop at long range. Especially with the heavier, longer bullets - they start to eat up case capacity pretty quick with the '06. Definitely step up to the magnum for kills at that range.

Feenix, that data might be wrong for the 270 Ackley...I don't even think a 7 STW could push a 175 grain to 3100. Good lookin charts though, great way to compare different loads/cartridges.

With the right powder an stw is capable of 3100 fps with a 175. With the 50 bmg type offerings I was getting 3100 fps from my 24" bbl lh stw last fall with 171 barnes; and in the last rifle ( 26" sendero) I was pushing 175 hdy to 3100 fps with slow powders too. The h1000, rl22 class simply isn't slow enough to let the stw breathe enough fire without going over pressure.

 

[FEENIX]

I personally would not trade a 300WM for a 300WSM. The standard OAL for the 300 is 3.34 but if you want to use like the Accubond 200gr or the Berger 210gr or heavier the mag box should be a minimum of 3.8 inches if you want to get it all the way to the lands. Of course where that is depends on the chamber but the big bullets are long.

Berger recommends a twist rate for the 210gr VLD of 1 in 11 or faster. So there you go...good luck.

Me too! Not sure of the difference in mag box but I have enough clearance up to 3.78" of OAL in my SAKO M995 in .300 Win Mag but only load to ~3.62" to play it safe.

Below are pix of 200gr NAB load ...

 

[FEENIX]

With the right powder an stw is capable of 3100 fps with a 175. With the 50 bmg type offerings I was getting 3100 fps from my 24" bbl lh stw last fall with 171 barnes; and in the last rifle ( 26" sendero) I was pushing 175 hdy to 3100 fps with slow powders too. The h1000, rl22 class simply isn't slow enough to let the stw breathe enough fire without going over pressure.

+1 on the right powder! Also, on barrel length and twist rate.

 

[LONGSHOOTER]

Actually it's significant ...

... especially if you handload the potent 210 and up grainers. I'm sure Jeff (BROZ) will be here shortly to chime in. gun)

Why would you put up fictitious numbers and then highlight them, and that cartridge is not even in the discussion?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I have a 30-06 that shoots great. 1/2 MOA and am proficient for shooting out to 850 yards . I have an new area that I hunt that I cannot get closer than 650 yards and out to 850 yards. The animals follow a couple paths on the face . What my delema is that poking game out that far I am confident I can place the bullet where needed, but I want to make sure that the 30-06 is a proficiant caliber to do what it needs to do out there to make a clean kill. I want to shoot deer out there (probably lung shot) and bears (probably shoulder shot to anchor )to those ranges .Should I be thinking about a getting a .300wm to make those shots confidently or will the 30-06 be the medicine.

Thanks in advance

Options to consider. If you use RL17, there is a good chance you can boost your velocities up by 200 fps in the 06. whether or not your rifle likes and shoots it well is another story. But something to think about. With the Nosler 210 ABLR you could get farther than 800 for bullet expansion which they advertise to be 1300 fps. Let's say you can get 2750 with RL17 and 210 ABLR. At 850 yards you have 1670 fps velocity. That is plenty for that bullet to kill a deer. I think the 06 is quite capable of pushing that bullet to that velocity with RL17. We have a member who has pushed the 208 Amax to 2750 in a 308 with RL17.

Buy a 300 WM? The best option IMO. Once you start getting past 600 yd shooting you are much better off with a long range type platform which includes a heavy barrel and good stock. I would recommend a Sendero. Load it up with some 215 Hybrids and H1000 and you have a LR killing machine.

The 300 WSM can be loaded with RL17 to match most 300 WM loads but I would not buy a factory rifle chambered in it because it will be a short action. A long action is the way to go for long high BC bullets in that cartridge.

 

[FEENIX]

Why would you put up fictitious numbers and then highlight them, and that cartridge is not even in the discussion?

I did not build the chart specifically for this thread, it was for a friend 6 months ago, but if you take the time instead of jumping the gun and look at OP's comment on #6 and my explanation on # 14, there are pertinent information relative to this thread. lightbulb

The 7MM Mag and the .308 Win are also not in the discussion. If you have any other questions on the chart, let me know and I'll be more than happy to elaborate.

And if you choose to contribute to the thread by all means do so. lightbulblightbulblightbulb

 

[LONGSHOOTER]

I did not build the chart specifically for this thread, it was for a friend 6 months ago, but if you take the time instead of jumping the gun and look at OP's comment on #6 and my explanation on # 14, there are pertinent information relative to this thread. lightbulb

The 7MM Mag and the .308 Win are also not in the discussion. If you have any other questions on the chart, let me know and I'll be more than happy to elaborate.

And if you choose to contribute to the thread by all means do so. lightbulblightbulblightbulb

The 7 and 308 are not highlighted. I also question your ability to reach 3100.

Contribute? Here you go...

The 300 WM is vastly more dire than the 30-06. No contest. The 300 can also be downloaded to 30-06 ballistics, for reduced needs, if desired.

When comparing non similar cartridges, the usual method might be to compare using bullets with similar shape and same sectional densities. Otherwise, it's apples and oranges.

 

[FEENIX]

The 7 and 308 are not highlighted. I also question your ability to reach 3100.

I really don't know why you have trouble understanding the fact that the chart was not specifically built for this thread but has pertinent information that can be used, i.e., HSM 185gr .30-06 and HSM 185gr .300 Win Mag - using exact same bullet. And that the 3100 FPS was a goal!

Sorry, I should have explained. That is my ultimate goal for velocity but I'll take accuracy over it anytime. I am pushing the 175 at 2919 FPS (SD=16) with 57.5g H4831SC, BR2, Win brass while fire-forming to AI off my 3-groove, 1:8, 30" Lilja barrel.

I have achieved 3147 FPS (SD=16) with 62g IMR 7828SSC but with signs of pressure I can do without.

Got some more loads with H4831SC and H4350 but haven't had a chance to make it to the range yet. Also, working up some Retumbo loads.

When comparing non similar cartridges, the usual method might be to compare using bullets with similar shape and same sectional densities. Otherwise, it's apples and oranges.

A friend owned a 7MM Mag and enjoys shooting HSM 180gr Berger VLDs and was considering buying a .300 Win Mag and would like to stay with factory ammo, specifically the HSM. However, they only load them with 185gr at this time.

Another friend inquired about the .308 Win and .30-06 ... also wanted to stay with factory ammo. So, I combined the 2 interest into one chart using the same Berger 185gr VLD bullet (similar shape and same sectional densities) into .308 Win, .30-06, and .300 Win Mag chamberings thus no apples and oranges metaphor.

I later added my .270 AI into the chart for my own personal reference and use. Basically, killing 3 birds with one stone.

Any other question?lightbulbgun)

 

[coquitlam]

Wow you guys have posted great information. I see that I should probably go to plan B and get the savage 111 long range hunter in .300WM (so I can load to full length the big bullets ) and I also was thinking about the nosler LRAB in the 210. It`s those small details that you guys have pointed out that make the difference . I hate it when you get the gun and find those details out later. I have done that too many times.
I just double checked before posting, the long range hunter in .300 wm has a twist rate of 10"how will that work as Kcebcj said 11 is whats recommended as I would like to shoot the 210 LRAC

 

[FEENIX]

Wow you guys have posted great information. I see that I should probably go to plan B and get the savage 111 long range hunter in .300WM (so I can load to full length the big bullets ) and I also was thinking about the nosler LRAB in the 210. It`s those small details that you guys have pointed out that make the difference . I hate it when you get the gun and find those details out later. I have done that too many times.
I just double checked before posting, the long range hunter in .300 wm has a twist rate of 10"how will that work as Kcebcj said 11 is whats recommended as I would like to shoot the 210 LRAC

The 1:10 is fine and it should stabilize all the bullets you mentioned.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Wow you guys have posted great information. I see that I should probably go to plan B and get the savage 111 long range hunter in .300WM (so I can load to full length the big bullets ) and I also was thinking about the nosler LRAB in the 210. It`s those small details that you guys have pointed out that make the difference . I hate it when you get the gun and find those details out later. I have done that too many times.
I just double checked before posting, the long range hunter in .300 wm has a twist rate of 10"how will that work as Kcebcj said 11 is whats recommended as I would like to shoot the 210 LRAC

The 210 ABLR will stabilize in an 11" twist.