Does neck tension change when you pull and replace bullets? I pulled bullets and reloaded them with a different charge weight (I goofed up on the first load) and accuracy and Es was horrible, but I like your idea. Just curious
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Hammer Hunter vs ELD-X: Speed and Accuracy
- Thread starter Doozy
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SSgt G Cody
Well-Known Member
Not sure I understand; Did you fine tune and optomize load for the HH, then just substitute the ELD-X and test? If so, that's not a fair test of the ELD-X at all! Fine tune the ELD-X load and re-test!
adam32+P
Well-Known Member
How do you fine tune factory ammo?
He literally pulled the ELDX bullets out of factory loaded ammo and replaced with the Hammers.
I love and use HH bullets but unless I'm missing something, this is not an apples to apples test. Only seating depth or jump can be matched, not both. Neck tension is also not equal. That being said, if it works go for it. Hammer bullets are the most forgiving and accurate I have shot to date. Pretty hard to screw them up 
The results are impressive, but unless the eldx and the hammers share the same weight, bearing surface, length and shape it's really not a fair test. What you did find is an excellent load and seating tune with the hammers using the factory eldx charge weight, brass and neck tension. Something that I would strive to replicate if the velocity numbers are within your ES/SD goals.
And optimized load for the ELDX and an optimized load with the hammers would be the best representation of comparison of the two bullets if that is the intended goal.
It is very well possible that the factory eldx ammo could shoot to the same potential with seating depth tuning or adding a tuner to the barrel.
It is not to take away from your findings or the hammer bullets themselves. You discovered a combination that works excellent in your rifle, something all hand loaders strive to do which often takes a lot more time and rounds down range.
And optimized load for the ELDX and an optimized load with the hammers would be the best representation of comparison of the two bullets if that is the intended goal.
It is very well possible that the factory eldx ammo could shoot to the same potential with seating depth tuning or adding a tuner to the barrel.
It is not to take away from your findings or the hammer bullets themselves. You discovered a combination that works excellent in your rifle, something all hand loaders strive to do which often takes a lot more time and rounds down range.
That's cool
The Hammers are going to out run the ELDX regardless, that was the whole point of his test to show that the Hammer design faster simply because of their design
To that end I agree if the objective was just to show the difference in speed between the two bullets. Even if speeds of the solids were equal or even a hair slower, the bc of mono solids should outpace most if not all of the jacketed competition in the same weight class.
His findings technically apply only to that rifle-bullet combination. A different rifle-combination could have a different outcome. It would be nice to test it with several rifles ($$$), bullet type should be fired in random order for each rifle, and ideally the shooter should not know the order (which type of bullet is in the chamber).
Wakey Wakey, rise and shine.... Time for school.
Doozy
Well-Known Member
There are too many comments to respond to individually, essentially saying the same thing. So I'll just reiterate... Yes, distance to lands can affect accuracy. My two loads had differences in distance to lands. So this isn't a perfect comparison of HH to ELD-X accuracy. I already posted this admission in a subsequent post in this thread. No worries. I wish I hadn't said in my original post that "without anything changed but the bullet..., " because that just isn't true. But I shouldn't change my original post now, or I would undercut many of your posts. Anyway, despite the errors, I still figured there would be interest in posting what I did.
Someone commented on using HH with lighter weight. I hadn't read that, but thank you for the tip. I should be alright though, because factory ammo goes up to 225 gr, and I used 212. But even so, I also purchased HH 199s. (And if needed, I could use the bullets I purchased for my 308 Win.
@JGRJR asked my twist rate. My Proof barrel is a 1:9 twist. Now, before anyone feels a need point out that HH214 bullets are recommended for a 1:8.5 twist, let me preempt you by saying, yes, I know this. But according to the Barnes stabilizer calculator, I can obtain a 1.5 stability rating with a 1:9 twist, with a low-ball estimate for velocity, at the lowest altitude I have around me, while at 32 degrees F! So I am not worried about the stability.
Thanks everyone!
Someone commented on using HH with lighter weight. I hadn't read that, but thank you for the tip. I should be alright though, because factory ammo goes up to 225 gr, and I used 212. But even so, I also purchased HH 199s. (And if needed, I could use the bullets I purchased for my 308 Win.
@JGRJR asked my twist rate. My Proof barrel is a 1:9 twist. Now, before anyone feels a need point out that HH214 bullets are recommended for a 1:8.5 twist, let me preempt you by saying, yes, I know this. But according to the Barnes stabilizer calculator, I can obtain a 1.5 stability rating with a 1:9 twist, with a low-ball estimate for velocity, at the lowest altitude I have around me, while at 32 degrees F! So I am not worried about the stability.
Thanks everyone!
Doozy
Well-Known Member
I don't know, but I wondered this myself. With the factory ammo, I even considered pulling the bullets and putting them right back in, just to be consistent. Maybe I'll do that next time.
For a friend's M2010 that I re-barreled, I Mexican Matched MK248 Mod0 with 210 Berger VLDs for hunting without doing anything other than seating the 210s at the same COL to feed from the magasine. At 200 yards, the 210s shot half minute. No pressure issue, got lucky. Laziness pays off sometimes.
Plenty good for his hunting.
