Hammer bullets WTH

[fordy]

Gday
Time for crayons to come out & glasses if needed

First one from a mate who also tested the lack of hydraulic effect

Look carefully @ that pill & you see no hydraulic pressure has occurred & that's a 3200 plus impact out of a deer with 137hh 30 cal devoid of all oil

I won't put up the beeswax & oil hydraulic pills as 1st hard to catch those shanks & 2nd boringly consistent wad cutter style shanks



Next to performance of the tips
& replicated also


All of those are within 40 fps impact with the higher impact going to the current tips
Same impact points & critters within 10/15 lbs of ea other

Next is my crude efforts of showing differences yes I'm not as good as @Petey308



Lastly
I was grateful on receiving these words below



1) There is often more to learn from failures than success.
2) Success is not simply defined as a dead critter.
3) With respect to evaluating bullet design, it is not just did the animal die but did the bullet perform the way it was designed and if not you have to look at the specifics and the details of each incident -type of failure, impact velocity, shot angle etc.
4) If we have enough incidents with details and specifics we will likely see patterns of failures for a particular bullet or even category of design.
5) The analysis of those patterns will lead to a better body of knowledge for bullet design.


Some will get those others not
Cheers

 

[MT-JONAS]

I'd still like to know if there was an issue…

 

[Petey308]

Gday
Time for crayons to come out & glasses if needed

First one from a mate who also tested the lack of hydraulic effect

Look carefully @ that pill & you see no hydraulic pressure has occurred & that's a 3200 plus impact out of a deer with 137hh 30 cal devoid of all oil

I won't put up the beeswax & oil hydraulic pills as 1st hard to catch those shanks & 2nd boringly consistent wad cutter style shanks

View attachment 637690

Next to performance of the tips
& replicated also

View attachment 637727View attachment 637728View attachment 637729View attachment 637730
All of those are within 40 fps impact with the higher impact going to the current tips
Same impact points & critters within 10/15 lbs of ea other

Next is my crude efforts of showing differences yes I'm not as good as @Petey308

View attachment 637735

Lastly
I was grateful on receiving these words below



1) There is often more to learn from failures than success.
2) Success is not simply defined as a dead critter.
3) With respect to evaluating bullet design, it is not just did the animal die but did the bullet perform the way it was designed and if not you have to look at the specifics and the details of each incident -type of failure, impact velocity, shot angle etc.
4) If we have enough incidents with details and specifics we will likely see patterns of failures for a particular bullet or even category of design.
5) The analysis of those patterns will lead to a better body of knowledge for bullet design.


Some will get those others not
Cheers

Well, it sure APPEARS like different tips

 

[FireFlyFishing]

I'd still like to know if there was an issue…

 

[MT-JONAS]

I wish he'd pull it out of his breast pocket and show us!

 

[Korhil78]

The black tips that I have have a longer stem than that

 

[TexasPride]

That's a point I was trying to make too. If the bullet is truly that particular in order to perform well terminally, I'm not so sure its a great bullet. I think there's more going on, and pointing at twist rate and stability is pointing to the wrong thing in my opinion, and I suspect is not the issue in this particular situation. Is it perhaps compounding with other things? Perhaps, but I really don't think its THE issue.

Was THE issue an issue at all?

 

[CRP003]

.

 

[Petey308]

Was THE issue an issue at all?

It was for the OP .

I wasn't there and don't have enough details, unfortunately, to tell you if I would have classified the exact occurrences as an issue or not. Two different deer at two different distances- both said to have needed two shots and the first one, at a closer and thus higher impact velocity, he said "could have used another". I have to take what info I was given and work with it. I don't take it as gospel, as no one else should either that wasn't there, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

So I'm just taking this thread as an opportunity to explore the possibilities, both good and bad. So far some interesting things have come from it.

 

[Rosebud]

I took his bullet and ran it through a ballistics program. At his stated speed from the muzzle the bullet has fallen below1800 FPS at 778 yards. That is below what Hammer States as needed for expansion. Its very close but right on the line for proper expansion.
I may not be perfect on this, others may have a better read for that.

 

[RH300UM]

So I'm just taking this thread as an opportunity to explore the possibilities, both good and bad. So far some interesting things have come from it.

Amen
+1 for me

 

[Petey308]

I took his bullet and ran it through a ballistics program. At his stated speed from the muzzle the bullet has fallen below1800 FPS at 778 yards. That is below what Hammer States as needed for expansion. Its very close but right on the line for proper expansion.
I may not be perfect on this, others may have a better read for that.

I'm not sure what elevation he's at, but Mexico in general tends to be pretty high up. Even at 1000' my ballistic calculator is showing that bullet at that MV still at 1838fps at 950 yards, with the BC provided on the website. A 785 yards, it shows 2,049fps and at 318 yards (first animal that he says took two shots and could have take 3) it shows 2,712fps.

 

[ButterBean]

1) There is often more to learn from failures than success.
2) Success is not simply defined as a dead critter.
3) With respect to evaluating bullet design, it is not just did the animal die but did the bullet perform the way it was designed and if not you have to look at the specifics and the details of each incident -type of failure, impact velocity, shot angle etc.
4) If we have enough incidents with details and specifics we will likely see patterns of failures for a particular bullet or even category of design.
5) The analysis of those patterns will lead to a better body of knowledge for bullet design.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[bigngreen]

Not all expectations are the same from person to person, one can see a failure while another is seeing exactly what they want. Many bullets out there, find what does what you want and rock on!

Does not sound like there was a failure to function but a failure to meet expectation which is very subjective!