Hammer bullet for short range bear hunting

[DoneNOut]

Man these bullet threads get pretty violent!!!

Oh I know, everyone should just shoot Hammers and move on...

 

[nralifer]

How about one shot kills on Elk at 1225-1500 yds and Moose at 950 yds. Have experienced the same thing as you with Barnes. Can't say about the other copper bullets you mentioned. Have posted about those kills on other threads on LRH. Look up the thread "From BC to terminal ballistics." We designed our hunting bullets to have higher BCs than Berger and open up reliably at 1700 fps impact. You can't generalize about our bullets unless you have tried them at 700+ yds. I still want to know what specifically you mean about "opening hard."

 

[Calvin45]

How about one shot kills on Elk at 1225-1500 yds and Moose at 950 yds. Have experienced the same thing as you with Barnes. Can't say about the other copper bullets you mentioned. Have posted about those kills on other threads on LRH. Look up the thread "From BC to terminal ballistics." We designed our hunting bullets to have higher BCs than Berger and open up reliably at 1700 fps impact. You can't generalize about our bullets unless you have tried them at 700+ yds. I still want to know what specifically you mean about "opening hard."

I realize That could be interpreted a few ways. I mean "opening up violently and quickly - working hard upon what's been hit" not "hard to open" haha.

I have zero experienc with your bullets nor with hammers yet on game, not wanting to generalize or take a cheap shot at anyone's product and I'm sorry if I've come off that way, wasn't my intent at all.

As a rule softer lead bullets do seem to be much more violent at low impact velocities and monos perform superior to lead the faster you go.

There are of course exceptions to any rule. The exception doesn't mean I won't affirm the existence of the rule. The existence rule doesn't mean I won't acknowledge the possibility of an exception.

 

[memtb]

Honestly I think I just have a bad taste in my mouth from a lot of accounts (not just one-offs) of heavier Barnes, hornady gmx, and Nosler e tips causing very narrow wounding and slow kills.

And I don't know if it'll be possible to convince me that at sub 2200 fps impacts coppers can do anything close to the damage that thin jacketed tipped heavy for caliber high bc lead bullets consistently do

I do use both!

Calvin, I wish I could find a picture of a Pronghorn I shot about 8 years ago. It was near dark, no time to range, shot was about 300 (I'm zero'd @ 300) I guessed 400 and bit high. The bullet hit right at the top of the Scapula. I think that I could cover the exit with an open hand…..but not by a lot. A 250 grain TTSX leaving @ 3130 …..the Pronghorn expired rather quickly! Pretty impressive exit, as this bullet is designed for animals a mite larger than an average Pronghorn buck! memtb


addendum: I'm relatively certain that the top of the Scapula disintegrating may have contributed !

 

[Pdvdh]

I didn't think the original X bullet expanded as well as the next generation TSX bullets.

Used a box of .284 160gr TSX bullets on 20 or so blacktail deer on Kodiak Island. Shot from a 280 RCBS Improved. The deer died with chest shots, but they would travel quite a distance with broadside chest shots. I presumed the bullets weren't opening very quickly, so they lacked the more rapid release of energy and tissue damage needed to kill more quickly.

The good part? They didn't damage a lot of meat, provided you could track and find the deer. I still have a few cartridges loaded with those bullets.

 

[Pdvdh]

Don't eat lead or drink lead contaminated water needlessly.

It won't improve your health. How does one identify and/or quantify the role lead exposure may have contributed to a diminishment in health, after the fact? After becoming sick? It's impossible.

The smart move is to avoid known exposures. Lead is a toxin. As with most toxins, toxicity is determined by a combination of concentration, and the duration of exposure.

Fortunately, the duration of exposure from eating bullet deposited lead in game meat is short term for most hunters.

 

[Gravel Road]

Sorry to disappoint you but just about any all copper bullet of the same weight is superior to the partition. Old mostly inaccurate low BC design. Relies on the COPPER partition to keep the shank from disintegrating.

 

[fordy]

Gday Aaron

Personalized Drag Models in the Applied Ballistics library.

Thanks I will write this down as no hope of remembering that or getting down that rabbit hole @ present
I saw you were watching this thread ( I saw you liked someone not stalking lol )
That's why I put your name not stage name as I'd rather be personal but look out if you get a nickname
Cheers

 

[fordy]

Gday nrailer
did you forget about my questions I asked or are you gathering information to show

Cheers

 

[Petey308]

Gday Aaron

Thanks I will write this down as no hope of remembering that or getting down that rabbit hole @ present
I saw you were watching this thread ( I saw you liked someone not stalking lol )
That's why I put your name not stage name as I'd rather be personal but look out if you get a nickname
Cheers

. Whatever you say….

I watch and follow many threads in this forum, as do many others, as it's kind of the idea of the place.

You asked for anyone to chime in with what PDM and AB meant, so I obliged and helped you out. And it's not much of a rabbit hole of a subject either. Custom Drag Models/Personalized Drag Models have become pretty standard nowadays, thanks to Applied Ballistics.

 

[Calvin45]

If you ever actually want to know what I think or if I have any advice to give, let me know. There is another turned bullet manufacture that was willing to help us when we got started. I feel some obligation to pay it forward.

Okay it may be something you're not comfortable sharing out in the open and if it's none of my business that's just fine with me…but I gotta ask cuz I'm a curious cat who hasn't used up many lives yet …

Was the turned bullet maker who helped you out early on GS Custom? I just have a hunch based on your own projectile design, some posts I recall reading as far back as 2014, and honestly just what I know about that company as being people who would definitely help the next man in line…

I'm happy with Hammers and can get them easily enough for a price in Canada now. I've wished GSC was more readily obtainable in my country for over a decade haha.

AND…I've had a number of people where I live who've never heard of hammer yet but are familiar with some of the older copper bullet makers ask about these newfangled bullets I'm loading in my .257 and, maybe this is incorrect of me, I've told them

"Imagine cutting edge and GS custom had a really awesome baby with none of the drawbacks and all of the positives of its parents" . You know, cuz the PDR lines making them easy to load for and capable of greater speeds like the GSC with the fragmenting nose and straight line shank penetration of the CEB. Not at implying this is a knockoff or copying anyone else anymore than saying every bonded bullet is just a ripoff of an old school bitterroot haha.

 

[nralifer]

Okay it may be something you're not comfortable sharing out in the open and if it's none of my business that's just fine with me…but I gotta ask cuz I'm a curious cat who hasn't used up many lives yet …

Was the turned bullet maker who helped you out early on GS Custom? I just have a hunch based on your own projectile design, some posts I recall reading as far back as 2014, and honestly just what I know about that company as being people who would definitely help the next man in line…

I'm happy with Hammers and can get them easily enough for a price in Canada now. I've wished GSC was more readily obtainable in my country for over a decade haha.

AND…I've had a number of people where I live who've never heard of hammer yet but are familiar with some of the older copper bullet makers ask about these newfangled bullets I'm loading in my .257 and, maybe this is incorrect of me, I've told them

"Imagine cutting edge and GS custom had a really awesome baby with none of the drawbacks and all of the positives of its parents" . You know, cuz the PDR lines making them easy to load for and capable of greater speeds like the GSC with the fragmenting nose and straight line shank penetration of the CEB. Not at implying this is a knockoff or copying anyone else anymore than saying every bonded bullet is just a ripoff of an old school bitterroot haha.

First of all, are you using the term "newfangle" in an insulting and demeaning way, because it sure appears so, and who's bullets are you referring to anyway? I want to dispel some myths here. No one helped us get started. In fact we have met with resistance and skepticism from the beginning by everybody. We have it from a very reliable source that CEB Lasers are poor long range hunting bullets as evidenced by the the fact that he shot an Audad with a .375 400 gr Laser at 965 yds 6 TIMES through the shoulder before the animal went down, but still had to kill it with a pistol. The animal had a nice 6 shot sub MOA group in his shoulder. None, and I mean 0, of these bullets expanded, but simply passed through. Now we have guys kill bigger animals at similar ranges with our bullets that weigh less than half as much with ONE shot. I want to maintain his privacy, but believe me he is well known, and a phenomenal long range shooter. I don't know much about GS Customs, but they were already out of the scene by the time we got going. I will leave it at that. Our hunting bullets are very different from everybody else's, and are designed to overcome the deficiencies of all our competitors. From competitors advertising and from actual shooting of their bullets we can spot where improvements can be made and improve our bullets to overcome those deficiencies. We also price our bullets competitively, certainly below the ones you mentioned. Now if they give special deals that undercut us, more power to them, but we know how much it costs to make lathe turned copper bullets, so those deals are not sustainable.

 

[waspocrew]

First of all, are you using the term "newfangle" in an insulting and demeaning way, because it sure appears so, and who's bullets are you referring to anyway? I want to dispel some myths here. No one helped us get started. In fact we have met with resistance and skepticism from the beginning by everybody. We have it from a very reliable source that CEB Lasers are poor long range hunting bullets as evidenced by the the fact that he shot an Audad with a .375 400 gr Laser at 965 yds 6 TIMES through the shoulder before the animal went down, but still had to kill it with a pistol. The animal had a nice 6 shot sub MOA group in his shoulder. None, and I mean 0, of these bullets expanded, but simply passed through. Now we have guys kill bigger animals at similar ranges with our bullets that weigh less than half as much with ONE shot. I want to maintain his privacy, but believe me he is well known, and a phenomenal long range shooter. I don't know much about GS Customs, but they were already out of the scene by the time we got going. I will leave it at that. Our hunting bullets are very different from everybody else's, and are designed to overcome the deficiencies of all our competitors. From competitors advertising and from actual shooting of their bullets we can spot where improvements can be made and improve our bullets to overcome those deficiencies. We also price our bullets competitively, certainly below the ones you mentioned. Now if they give special deals that undercut us, more power to them, but we know how much it costs to make lathe turned copper bullets, so those deals are not sustainable.

Pretty sure he was asking RockyMtnMT.

 

[fordy]

First of all, are you using the term "newfangle" in an insulting and demeaning way, because it sure appears so, and whose bullets are you referring to anyway? I want to dispel some myths here. No one helped us get started. In fact we have met with resistance and skepticism from the beginning by everybody. We have it from a very reliable source that CEB Lasers are poor long range hunting bullets as evidenced by the the fact that he shot an Audad with a .375 400 gr Laser at 965 yds 6 TIMES through the shoulder before the animal went down, but still had to kill it with a pistol. The animal had a nice 6 shot sub MOA group in his shoulder. None, and I mean 0, of these bullets expanded, but simply passed through. Now we have guys kill bigger animals at similar ranges with our bullets that weigh less than half as much with ONE shot. I want to maintain his privacy, but believe me he is well known, and a phenomenal long range shooter. I don't know much about GS Customs, but they were already out of the scene by the time we got going. I will leave it at that. Our hunting bullets are very different from everybody else's, and are designed to overcome the deficiencies of all our competitors. From competitors advertising and from actual shooting of their bullets we can spot where improvements can be made and improve our bullets to overcome those deficiencies. We also price our bullets competitively, certainly below the ones you mentioned. Now if they give special deals that undercut us, more power to them, but we know how much it costs to make lathe turned copper bullets, so those deals are not sustainable.

If it wasn't morning over there I'd think that response was tequila related


Well I was told tequila fixes everything

Night you all
Cheers