good news from AZ
- Thread starter dogdinger
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Briancrn113
Member
Glad to hear it. Seems like states are taking a strong stance on this issue, honestly 10 years ago I did not think we would be here. But we are, gun ownership is at its highest ever, more people carry than ever before and violent crime is down significantly. Evidence based science is clear, more guns and losed carry laws have not lead to more violence, not even the most hard-headed anti-gunner could argue this honestly. I carry daily except when at work where I cannot, I openly share with others my habits and reasons that I carry and I feel that being an advocate for my beliefs has lead some people to reconsider their beliefs. Good for Arizona, maybe a good retirement home...20 years from now. South Dakota is too **** cold sometimes.
dogdinger
Well-Known Member
more good news from AZ with the gov signing the immigration bill. Now if they can just get rid of John McCain they might make something of that state. I wouldnt even think of retiring there briancrn....after living in SD for so long you would not live through a summer there. You would melt into your shoes! AJ
Briancrn113
Member
I'm comming off a winter that felt like it would never end, don't be fooled we get plenty hot here in the summer...we get extremes really cold really hot. I do just fine with hot weather its being inside for 4-5 months that wears me down. I heard about the imigration bill as well, of course it was not favorably presented in the news. I've said it many times I have no problem with people comming to this country to reap the benifits if they do so legally and with a spirit of gratefullness.
dogdinger
Well-Known Member
amen to that. I like the way TR said it best:
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin.
But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American.
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but is something else also, isn't an American at all.
We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile.
We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin.
But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American.
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but is something else also, isn't an American at all.
We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile.
We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
I am DOWN on dual citizenship also!
dogdinger
Well-Known Member
"No training+no background check...interesting"
Am i to assume you disagree with this Chas1?
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
where is the part about training and background check?
Am i to assume you disagree with this Chas1?
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
where is the part about training and background check?
Interesting as in It's making me think of the pros and cons. Generally I think anything that gains us ground and makes the anti's loose ground is a good thing. As just one example Starbuck's position (supports it) on open carry in California...I'm delighted.
Then, I wonder(no facts in yet so haven't taken a position.) will it become so easy so as to minimize the awesome responsibility of carrying coupled with no training and does this eventually lead to incident/s where poor judgement and /or lack of training are maybe the root cause but instead it gives the media/anti's fuel to beat the drums about gun crazed individual blah blah...so does it have the potential to back fire. Not to mention, there's a bunch of regs covering do and don't's that can get you in serious trouble w/o even unholstering your weapon...so w/o training is it realistic that an individual/s unknowingly get arrested. As just one example: where and where not to carry.
I don't know but I've seen folks the day after Christmas with their brand new shiny auto...never having owned or used a firearm in their life come to the range, and I got to tell you some are **** right dangerous. Unforetunate as it is it's atleast at the range and so I keep the my eyes open in the back of my head. I'm not sure I'm in favor of that environment out in town and round about the neighborhood.
It's kinda got me wondering that if a person has possesion of a vehicle then issue them a license and skip the training and any background/previous driving record check.
I've introduced many to the world of firearms...family and friends and before they ever touched a firearm they got trained. I'm just not sure how Billy Bob running around town the day after Christmas plays out.
Any of this make any sense or am I just out in left field alone here wondering?
Then, I wonder(no facts in yet so haven't taken a position.) will it become so easy so as to minimize the awesome responsibility of carrying coupled with no training and does this eventually lead to incident/s where poor judgement and /or lack of training are maybe the root cause but instead it gives the media/anti's fuel to beat the drums about gun crazed individual blah blah...so does it have the potential to back fire. Not to mention, there's a bunch of regs covering do and don't's that can get you in serious trouble w/o even unholstering your weapon...so w/o training is it realistic that an individual/s unknowingly get arrested. As just one example: where and where not to carry.
I don't know but I've seen folks the day after Christmas with their brand new shiny auto...never having owned or used a firearm in their life come to the range, and I got to tell you some are **** right dangerous. Unforetunate as it is it's atleast at the range and so I keep the my eyes open in the back of my head. I'm not sure I'm in favor of that environment out in town and round about the neighborhood.
It's kinda got me wondering that if a person has possesion of a vehicle then issue them a license and skip the training and any background/previous driving record check.
I've introduced many to the world of firearms...family and friends and before they ever touched a firearm they got trained. I'm just not sure how Billy Bob running around town the day after Christmas plays out.
Any of this make any sense or am I just out in left field alone here wondering?
M
Miller Outdoors
Guest
Congratulations to Arizona for getting and applying the actual meaning of right to bear arms "shall not be infringed". Novel concept - taking words for what they actually mean. 
Briancrn113
Member
Yep those people exist Chas1...they are the same people who like to wear lots of black and velcro, use holsters that barrely work, we all know who they are. I think your concerns are valid, carrying is an awesome responsibility, in my state I did not need training but did need a background check, are we certain AZ doesn't require a background check? I would like to see carry classes or basic firearms classes become as common as CPR classes, course that would mean I would have to put my money where my mouth is and become an instructor...it's on my list of to do's. We will always have these peopel with us, the best we could do is educate. As for requiring training...not sure.
dogdinger
Well-Known Member
chas1...
i suppose your arguments are valid enough, but to me it is delightful to see a place in this country where the second ammendment is all we need to secure our rights. there are inherent risks involved in almost everything we do. you mentioned driving and i agree that this is one case in point where there should be more training. in most places, any 16yr old kid with a license can get behind the wheel of a 8000lb lethal weapon and drive any where he wants in any traffic situation. i am an optimist at heart. i believe most people have the sense to educate themselves when it comes to firearms training. of course the gangbangers and drug dealers are not going to follow the rules anyway as it pertains to firearms, so this doesnt scare me in the least. let the honest , law abiding citizens of this country have the right to defend themselves and lets re-visit this in 5 yrs and see what the results are. The anti's all howled that we would have shootouts in the streets when we started issuing CC permits a few yrs back....didnt happen. i suspect this will be more of the same. AJ
i suppose your arguments are valid enough, but to me it is delightful to see a place in this country where the second ammendment is all we need to secure our rights. there are inherent risks involved in almost everything we do. you mentioned driving and i agree that this is one case in point where there should be more training. in most places, any 16yr old kid with a license can get behind the wheel of a 8000lb lethal weapon and drive any where he wants in any traffic situation. i am an optimist at heart. i believe most people have the sense to educate themselves when it comes to firearms training. of course the gangbangers and drug dealers are not going to follow the rules anyway as it pertains to firearms, so this doesnt scare me in the least. let the honest , law abiding citizens of this country have the right to defend themselves and lets re-visit this in 5 yrs and see what the results are. The anti's all howled that we would have shootouts in the streets when we started issuing CC permits a few yrs back....didnt happen. i suspect this will be more of the same. AJ
Briancrn113 and dogdinger, thanks for the feedback, good comments. Black clothing and velcro...so true, heck I work with some and they think auto pistols the way to go versus revolver simply because of firepower but don't have a clue nor the motor skills to handle a malfunction under normal conditions let alone a stressful one. Like I said I'm just wondering, in any event better AZ goes this route than clamping down...the anti's would love that and only motivate them more...so anything that takes the wind out of their sails is a plus. Again, thanks for the feedback.
bb204
Well-Known Member
Guess I missed the " no background check " part ....
