Forming Ackley Cases - With or without bullet?

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

I've been fire forming 250AI brass for 30 years. I use 12.3 grains of green dot with COW and ivory bar soap to seal the case. Cases are fully formed in one firing.

I think I saw that soap commercial about 29 years ago. It was with Liz Taylor. She was standing with a RIFLE next to her thigh talking about how smooth the Ivory soap was on her skin and smooth how the bullets left the barrel.. It was on the Ed Sullivan Show if I am mist aken!

 

[SEGARE]

I think I saw that soap commercial about 29 years ago. It was with Liz Taylor. She was standing with a RIFLE next to her thigh talking about how smooth the Ivory soap was on her skin and smooth how the bullets left the barrel.. It was on the Ed Sullivan Show if I am mist aken!

Can't find any reference for Liz on ES or having anything to do with Ivory Soap. She did pimp Lux Toilet Soap, but that was in her early years. WTH is "Toilet Soap?"

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I'm from the other camp - I fireformed all of my AI case by loading bullets jammed into the rifling so that case heads were firmly against the bolt face. I use starting loads from the manual and worked up a bit. Good loads were often found while forming cases. As a matter of fact, I killed many groundhogs while forming 6mmAI cases in a custom heavy varmint rig.

I ate the COW before heading to the range in the morning.

 

[Mikecr]

Could you explain what you mean by deep body dip anneal? I have a flame annealer. Where and when should I be annealing during this process?

Ackley improvement can be a pretty big change. You can crack some cases.
And one of the changes is to reduce body taper.

In my opinion, a good process anneal (which is not full anneal) is prerequisite to a quick, reduced trouble forming.
This, applied from case mouths to ~halfway down the body.
Salt bath annealing provides this with a setting of ~850degF.
This softens the case enough to reduce cracking, form well, and still provide normal spring back for proper extraction.

 

[rking453]

A few more questions for everyone, should I anneal before and after? The cases are brand new. For bullet-less forming should I use pistol or rifle primers?

 

[Willys]

I start with 50 cases, jam fit in chamber, shoot bullets to season barrel, reload shoot again. Now have barrel broken in and 50 perfectly formed cases. Other than cost of bullets and powder isn't this better than COW method?

 

[Coldfinger]

Sounds great, I think I will go with this method. How often do you clean the barrel when doing this?

Never your shooting soap!!!! Sorry had to lol

 

[rking453]

Never your shooting soap!!!! Sorry had to lol

Hahaha self cleaning loads!

 

[just_jon]

I anneal before fire forming. I also use rifle primers. You can also seal the case with a wad of TP or paper towel. I run compressed air through the barrel every five shots. COW is my preferred method because it does not require a trip to the range.

 

[del2les]

Good evening everyone,

I am going to venture into my first Ackley chambered rifle. I am planning to find a nice donor Ruger M77 Hawkeye short action, and have a barrel custom made in 250 Savage Ackley Improved for whitetail hunting. I have owned or shot a large variety of bolt action hunting rifles, and there is just something about the look and feel of a walnut and blued Hawkeye that makes me love them more than any other.

I already have 200 250 Savage cases, and 200 relatively cheap Hornady 117 gr. BTSP bullets. I was planning to load up all 200, and use them to form the cases and break in the new barrel before developing hunting loads around Hammer Bullets.

I have been ready a lot lately about bullet-less fire forming. I am looking for opinions on this method, vs the method I had planned, just shooting normal loads to form the cases. Some folks say the bullet-less method does a better job forming the cases, is this true?

I would assume you want the cases as well formed as possible to give more accurate results when performing load development.

Any insight, advice, or opinions around this manner would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!

There are many methods for fire-forming, and I will list those I have used. Remember, brass fire-forming is about achieving the correct amount of "pressure" to form the case properly, and there are various methods to achieve "pressure" that can save money and barrel life.

1 COW or Cream-o-Wheat method with appropriate charge of pistol powder
2 Cheap cast bullet with appropriate charge of pistol powder - Lyman Cast Bullet manual of similar for charge start
3 Cheaper jacketed bullet with appropriate charge of pistol powder - Lyman Cast Bullet or similar manual will give good guide
4 Cheaper jacketed bullet with a faster rifle powder load
5 Full power loads for hunting
6 Hydro but I was never a fan

 

[Coldfinger]

I'm forming 250 ai using Sierra 87 GK. I'm shooting mak Sierra manual loads and getting great groups and nice formed cases. Just doing a few at a time and load development. Imr 3031 is giving a sharper shoulder angle than 4895. I'm planning on having barrel cut at 22" instead of this 26" flag pole!

 

[waveslayer]

I have done extensive testing for my .338 Norma AI. I have two ways of going about it.
Option 1) I worked up a good load using standard .338 Norma brass... Shoots lights out! so from there I get fire formed cases and allows me to get great results... So I can shoot and fire form.

Option 2) saving money- I use a Hydro forming die by Whidden. it's messy with the water but works perfectly. I have tested it and the variances are so small you would never know from newly formed brass from once fired brass. I do this when I want to save money and just shoot my AI version.

My zero for both fire formed and standard .338 Norma brass is the same. so no adjustments for my rifle.

that's my experience. COW method is fine... just takes too much time for me and is a hassle. Working up a great load using standard brass allows me to enjoy shooting and then enjoying the fire formed (to mu chamber) brass in the end. win win.

 

[RidgeTop]

Fire forming brass. When I did .303 I wanted all the forming to occur on the front. So, I put an 'o' ring just in front of the rim. This kept the firing pin from pushing the case forward and stretching by the web instead of the front.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Work up an accurate fire forming load and go have fun shooting steel and even hunting with it.