VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
Thats just an FMJ and deforms fairly easy.
For 1 that carrys a pistol while hunting?
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VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
Your chances of running into a black bear or cougar are better than seeing a grizzly in CO. Few grizzlies may roam the state but it's rare. Saying that, the 357/40 or 45 would be a fine side carry. Stoked with heavy for caliber and not necessarily hardcore bullets. I think you'd be adequately armed for protection IF you had an opportunity to defend. Cougars are silent hunters. Bears with Cubs are a concern. Bear spray would be on my other side as a deterrent as well.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
Read back to approximately 2013-2016 sometime I recall a fishing guide in Alaska guiding husband and wife on a salmon trip. Walked into a dangerous Grizzly scenario. Grizzly rushed the woman and the guide got off 5-7 shots with his 9mm semi loaded with 147 Hardcast bullets. First shot hit the bruins neck and following rounds hit the bear center mass as it spun. Last shot ended up in the bears pelvic area. Bear dropped dead 6' from the last shot. Not sure how big the bear was but it's said it was an adult bruin. This bear was shot and killed by a 9mm semi auto with 5-7 rds. Range was about 10 ft if I remember correctly. Much too close for any kind of comfort. Important part is, carry adequate power that you can shoot proficiently several times rapidly. I don't personally consider a 9mm ti be adequate in grizzly country but he made it work.
hunter67wa
Well-Known Member
I have used their 357 and it was great. Good to know about the 10mm. I have used Buffalo Bore in 10mm and 357 and woeked great.
I black bear hunt in Maine, always carry a Glock 20, 10mm. I am of the belief that what I am carrying for a rifle to hunt with ought to be enough to get the job done. I also know that "shtuff" happens when we least expect it, whether we are watering or fertilizing a tree, dressing out an animal, fumbling through out pack for lunch, or whatever............? I believe in having something close at hand just in case I experience one of those moments when we wished that we had something real close at hand!!
I have been convalescing from a surgery and have been reading a number of bear hunting books about bear hunting and bear encounters. Mostly "every" serious encounter where a bear caused serious/severe injuries or death was due to that person not going prepared for where they were and what they were doing. One documented incident story that I read (Outdoor Life book) was where a man went out photographing moose in a very remote area. On the way to the area he encountered a squirrel and started taking photos of the squirrel. The squirrel started barking, that attracted a sow "brown" bear (with cubs). It was thought that the bear may have thought that a moose was the causation of the ruckus and decided it was lunch time. When the bear encountered the photographer as it came through the alders, almost face to face, the only thing that changed for the bear was what was on the menu!! The photographer normally carried a 22 pistol for small game. On this photography trip the wife convinced the photographer to take his .38 Special in a shoulder holster instead of the .22. Long story was the bear did not charge as a result it offered the photographer three (?) really good head shots. He stated that they did not take the bear out, but seemed to stun it and disorient it.
Anyways...............with this story I agree that whatever you are carrying, I find it to be a good idea to carry along "something" that you have some trust in and experience shooting to get the job done. I have never shot anything but paper and steel with my G20, and..........it really does a better job on the steel than the .45 ACP ever does with any type of ammunition. There are different opinions about the 10mm and the .44 mag, to me if I wanted more protection in a handgun it would be in a much bigger caliber than either of these cartridges. I read somewhere that it was the "4-3-1" formula; at minimum 44 caliber, weighing in at least 300gr, and traveling at least 1000fps. My limitations are the 10mm, I do not feel comfortable shooting anything with more recoil than that cartridge, plus I have had extensive experience and training with the Glock. My .02c worth.
I have been convalescing from a surgery and have been reading a number of bear hunting books about bear hunting and bear encounters. Mostly "every" serious encounter where a bear caused serious/severe injuries or death was due to that person not going prepared for where they were and what they were doing. One documented incident story that I read (Outdoor Life book) was where a man went out photographing moose in a very remote area. On the way to the area he encountered a squirrel and started taking photos of the squirrel. The squirrel started barking, that attracted a sow "brown" bear (with cubs). It was thought that the bear may have thought that a moose was the causation of the ruckus and decided it was lunch time. When the bear encountered the photographer as it came through the alders, almost face to face, the only thing that changed for the bear was what was on the menu!! The photographer normally carried a 22 pistol for small game. On this photography trip the wife convinced the photographer to take his .38 Special in a shoulder holster instead of the .22. Long story was the bear did not charge as a result it offered the photographer three (?) really good head shots. He stated that they did not take the bear out, but seemed to stun it and disorient it.
Anyways...............with this story I agree that whatever you are carrying, I find it to be a good idea to carry along "something" that you have some trust in and experience shooting to get the job done. I have never shot anything but paper and steel with my G20, and..........it really does a better job on the steel than the .45 ACP ever does with any type of ammunition. There are different opinions about the 10mm and the .44 mag, to me if I wanted more protection in a handgun it would be in a much bigger caliber than either of these cartridges. I read somewhere that it was the "4-3-1" formula; at minimum 44 caliber, weighing in at least 300gr, and traveling at least 1000fps. My limitations are the 10mm, I do not feel comfortable shooting anything with more recoil than that cartridge, plus I have had extensive experience and training with the Glock. My .02c worth.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
You'll be disappointed in the 10mm ballistics in the HSM bear load.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
Not sure about that 4,3,1 formula. Not sure a bear cares or has ever heard about it either. What I do know is, a 10mm moving a 200+ Hardcast bullet can and will penetrate the skull and possibly exit as well. The object is penetrate deep. Brain or vitals need to be penetrated. With a 10mm, the biggest difference is how many shots can be made on target. Like you, I shoot mine well and many shots hit a small paper plate or steel plate in a couple seconds vs maybe one in a stressful scenario.
hthunter
Well-Known Member
Thanks for post. I feel better after reading that. Had been looking at 44 mag. I'll think I'll shoot my .40, .45, and .357 and take whichever I can pop off 5-6 accurate shots with at ~20 yards.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
I'm no expert on what's best for bear defense BUT I know what I shoot well. It's accurate, fast and packs alot of firepower in a fairly small easy to carry package. Usually don't carry a side arm when carrying a rifle. It's not a bad idea as alibiiv spoke above. If it's on your hip or chest, it's with you and accessible 100% of the time. A rifle isn't. Bow hunts are where I carry a side arm. I will be carrying one on rifle hunts as well. His point was well taken ( rustling thru a back pack, dressing an animal, eating a snack or just reading a map unaware of any predator close by).
Hello VLD, I totally agree with what you have written here. Recently I spoke with one of the people at Buffalo Bore because I had a concern with shooting the hard cast, "lead", bullets out the Glock 20 barrel with the polygon rifling. He told me that their bullets are not simply a lead bullet they are extremely hard cast alloy made to be shot in a Glock and made to penetrate deeply. I've been reloading some 200gr, 10mm for when we bear hunt, I cannot seem to find a 220gr jacketed bullet. This year I will be carrying the 10mm, Buffalo Bore bullets in my Glock. The "4-3-1" formula was developed by a bear hunter whose recommendation for a back-up handgun for bear falls within the criteria of a handgun that has a caliber of at least 44 caliber, that has a bullet that weighs at least 300grains, and that 300gr bullet is leaving the muzzle at a velocity of at least 1000 feet per second.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
I have a 6" KKM barrel on my Glock 20. The extra length offers more performance than the 4.6" Glock barrel and the kkm barrel allows me to shoot lead bullets. I shoot Underwood ammo as the 220 buffalo bore was giving me problems feeding. Underwood has a coating( hi-tek) on their bullets that allows them to feed better with no failure to feed issues. Some guns may not have that issue, mine did. The extra barrel length gives me mid 1300 fps velocities and roughly 800 ft lbs energy. Shoots about the same accuracy wise with the heavy loads. I have the +5 mag extensions on some mags that allow 20 rds. Shooting in a timed scenario, I can keep 20 rounds on a 5" steel plate at 9 yards in 5.6 seconds repeatedly. Practice makes it happen and alot of it. Obviously shooting fmj ammo at a reduced rate for practice which allows even faster shots on target just as accurately.
Great post thank you. I have also looked at the Underwood ammunition. I have not had the opportunity to shoot any of the 220g hard cast bullets, however Underwood was also on the list with the Buffalo Bores. What I read or saw on a video the Underwood do not smoke as much as the Buffalo Bores; but, figured I would try them both. I had a GLock 40 10mm, found it a bit too long for me when I tried to clear the holster. I have a Bianci, lined thump break holster, I used it for the G40 but the barrel stuck out below the holster quite a bit. I thank you for the information on the feeding problem, that is something that I will be checking out. Curious if you chose to put a heavier recoil spring for the heavier bullets. I've read mixed reviews on this concept as well.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
I have a 20/22/24 lb spring. The 22 is the best compromise. It will allow me to shoot 180 fmj bullets also. The 24 won't eject them and the 20 lb spring isn't heavy enough for the 220s IMO.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
I'm looking at buying a Glock 40 MOS
