Fluted Bartlein vs Proof Research sendero contours

The science is simple. If the CF barrel claims of advantageous and excellent heat transfer/shedding are really true, and that feature is a predominant marketing claim - then provide the thermal conductivity of your adhered carbon fiber material.

The only mystery to this subject discussion is... why don't they and why won't they?
 
As to your point about the ends of the barrel being hot regardless of the material every one of my barrels is too hot to keep your hands on after 6-7 rounds so there would be no way, once again, to prove with touch.
That's an interesting comment, as the last CF barrel owner I discussed this with claimed how cool his CF barrel was to the touch. And then I told him he just disproved his belief in higher rates of heat transfer.
Oopsie doopsie...
 
Last edited:
I have to disagree with most of that.

Point blank 10.5lb rifles suck to build, you are literally counting oz.s. If a carbon barrel could compete they would be on EVERY 6ppc built. It would give us so many more options for stocks and scopes. Guys are lined up for over a year waiting for $2000 carbon fiber stocks to save weight.

F-open rifles do not balance as well as they could with those long barrels, again if they would shoot up to par you would see them used. Especially in F-tr with the 18lb limit that includes your bi-pod.

In long range Benchrest the standard barrel is a 28" heavy varmint. I build a lot of these. This is the place that we would need the weight savings the least. But would take it for better balance.

If they would shoot with a top barrel they would be a game changer in short range BR and F-TR.
Does the fact that they can not be set back come into play?

Steve
 
That's an interesting comment, as the last CF barrel owner I discussed this with claimed how cool his CF barrel was to the touch. And then I told him he just disproved his belief in higher rates of heat transfer.
Oops.

Get this...first time it had happened to me. I was shooting last week and it was getting close to dark. I stepped up my rate of fire. After I got done shooting, I grabbed the carbon fiber portion of my barrel. It was the warmest that I have ever felt it (the carbon wrap). The carbon was not really hot, just more "warm". I then went to touch the metal end of the barrel and the metal at the barrel nut junction...

I was surprised that the metal was cooler than the carbon. I was expectation to almost get burned by touching the metal.

I know this is just one data point...but I am going to pay more attention to it during my longer shot strings.

What we really need to do is to find some one with an AR with a carbon wrapped barrel.
 
What we really need to do is to find some one with an AR with a carbon wrapped barrel.
There you go. If there's a notable difference in thermal conduction in the CF compared to steel, the hand will not lie. Of course you'll need to feel both at comparable locations. My steel barrels get hottest the quickest just out from the throat/chamber. Same location fire checking and heat cracking in the bore surface is observed with bore scopes.

AR CF barrels should be smoke'n hot if the CF conducts heat from bore to the surface of the CF better and faster than steel.

I think CF barrels have their useful place, and I'm glad the option's available. I could want one, one day soon. They do reduce weight while maintaining rigidity.
Why not simply sell them based on their real benefits, with truth in advertising? Don't false advertise the product to push sales and maximize profits. Don't play us the fool.
 
Last edited:
If the CF barrels do not run cooler and do not shed heat faster than a steel barrel, then besides manufacturer misrepresentation on this aspect, CF barrel owners could think their barrels will cool faster than a steel barrel and be more immune to rapid rates of fire. Owner's may feel comfortable with higher rates of fire. I believe the steel cores of CR barrels will actually run hotter.

On top of misrepresentation, this would be a complete disservice to CF barrel owners.

I posted in another thread and solicited by open invitation, that anyone desiring to correct my claims of less efficient heat transfer was invited to participate in the thread and support their claim of better heat dissipation with CF barrels. Even manufacturers could sound in. No takers for a week or so now. The truth would be best fleshed out through testing of their CF wrap for thermal conductivity (independent test to ensure credibility), and then providing those numbers/values. If the numbers are different in the longitudinal direction than the radial direction, then provide a thermal conductivity value in both directions. Virtually all CF barrel makers claim better cooling, yet none that I've seen provide this documentation. This would be no different than insulation manufacturers providing the R-value of the insulation products. Higher R-value = less thermal conduction (better insulation rating) per unit thickness of the insulation media.

Shy of that method, a guy could test two barrels of equal contour, one CF and the other steel, at equal rates of fire with the same cartridge chambering. Could hook up some temperature sensors and register temps at multilple locations along the exterior of the barrels for a digital readout. This method presents more variables besides strictly thermal conductivity values, but it could provide good data.

Next cruder method is the end user can just feel by hand the temperature difference at the location the CF barrel manufacturer claims their CF barrels will shed the bulk of the heat of fire most effectively. If it's longitudinally, then feel the steel at each end of the CF wrap. It should be notably hotter than a plain steel barrel of similar contour at the same location and rate of fire - with the same ammo. If the claim is radial heat loss, then the carbon fiber wrap should be warmer to the touch at all external surfaces, compared to a plain steel barrel of equal diameter.

If you feel no difference, the conclusion should be straightforward and obvious. If the CF wrap is cooler to touch, as one owner claimed to support his belief that his CF barrel cooled more efficiently than steel, then it's obviously horse-pucky.

If I owned a CF barrel, I would be more cautious with high rates of fire than with a plain steel barrel. Certainly so until the CF barrel manufacturer presented the thermal conductivity values of their CF wrap, and I could confirm that their CF wrap dispersed heat more quickly than steel. Even then I'd still be doing the touch test for final confirmation of higher exterior surface temps during some repetitive fire, compared to comparable contour steel barrels.
 
Last edited:
I had a bartlein 3B spiral fluted finished at 23" for dad's hunting rifle. Bedded in a MCS T, with APA DBM, and it's right at 11lbs loaded with the can and bipod. It' balances nicely. Could shed a little more with a regular 3 and rid of the DBM. To me PROOF is a bit for looks and if you want a thick looking barrel profile without the weight. I still want one, i'd like to see what the sendero lite on my TL3 in 7SAUM would be like. That said you can achieve lighter weight with SS of smaller contours with ease for much less cash.

IMG_1827.JPG
 
Last edited:
I had a bartlein 3B spiral fluted finished at 23" for dad's hunting rifle. Bedding in a MCS T, with APA DBM, and it's right at 11lbs loaded with the can and bipod. It' balances nicely. Could shed a little more with a regular 3 and rid of the DBM. To me PROOF is a bit for looks and if you want a thick looking barrel profile without the weight. I still want one, i'd like to see what the sendero lite on my TL3 in 7SAUM would be like. That said you can achieve lighter weight with SS of smaller contours with ease for much less cash.

I really like this and am heavily leaning this direction. I think the 3b is just big enough to give me what I want and save some weight from a sendero contour. I'm not sure on dbm yet but I can handle 11-12 pounds with the can. Should shoot the 7SS nice and comfy at that weight. Thanks!
 
A 7SS with a 3b or 3 bartlien OR a Proof barrel is a sweet ride, I've built them both ways and depending on barrel length and how the over all build will be I'd go either way.
If using a heavier stock and running a 26+ inch barrel or wanting to run a suppressor I'd run a Proof.
 
I really like this and am heavily leaning this direction. I think the 3b is just big enough to give me what I want and save some weight from a sendero contour. I'm not sure on dbm yet but I can handle 11-12 pounds with the can. Should shoot the 7SS nice and comfy at that weight. Thanks!

If going with DBM APA is the way to go IMHO. Light as hell and the mag release is integrated in the trigger guard with not protrusions to snag on anything.

3B is a solid choice for range sessions and hunting. It's not pencil thin but not straight taper thick. It's a solid medium contour.
 
A 7SS with a 3b or 3 bartlien OR a Proof barrel is a sweet ride, I've built them both ways and depending on barrel length and how the over all build will be I'd go either way.
If using a heavier stock and running a 26+ inch barrel or wanting to run a suppressor I'd run a Proof.

What makes you lean Proof for long+can? Interested since I'm thinking 26 and a suppressor.

Rigidity?
 
I'd like to use a suppressor. Dang barrels get so long, they can double as life support while crossing glacial crevices. Or a pole to pole vault across them.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 7 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.
Top