Fluted Barrel full length bedding

[Blancoalex]

bigngreen, agree that "if" there is underlying issue then the full length would enhance the issue.

Can agree that it is not for a high volume match rifle. I been to matches that up 100 rounds are shot in single day and 10-20 in fast relay.

But in my brief experience so far I am seeing the results Dean2 has pointed out.

So each has it's place.

Kinda like I'm not driving my Lamborghini in the Baja . Wish I had a Lamborghini or opportunity just to drive one.

 

[Canhunter35]

At least you're going to full length bed In a solid laminate stock which should give the best results, but even thin whippy barrels can be tuned with load development, but good luck with the project

 

[Susquatch]

Post deleted

 

[J E Custom]

The reason I don't full length bed is the fact that any pressure applied to the forearm changes the loading on the barrel and shifts the POI. Rifles with tip pressure. (When the action is torqued down, the stock actually flexes/bends the barrel slightly)so the barrel can support the stock and normally makes the first shot fairly consistent. But if anything changes in the stock due to humidity, the point of contact with the support/rest changes, loading a by pod is not consistent, the point of impact can/will change.

All of this is negated if the barrel is floated and as long as the barrel touches nothing, accuracy and poi should remain the same.

There are times with very light contours, that something can be added to the tip of the stock that effectively shortens the effective length and the barrel responds like a very short barrel. When doing this, I prefer to apply a small area of bedding (1" wide) to the fore end at the same time I do the pillar bedding. This method does not do anything but dampen the barrel harmonics and doesn't add tip pressure that can change the loading. I also recommend that if this method is used, it appears to work best on stocks with heavy forearms (Very ridged).

The only practical use of full length bedding in my opinion is when a stock has full length contact buy the stock and barrel bands like on some military rifle Like the Mannlicher Carcano.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Scott E Ames]

Is it just me? Wouldn't full length bedding of a fluted barrel lock the barrel in the action unless you expertly fill the flutes first and then remove the filler afterwards. Wouldn't it also cause the barrel to heat up and cool down very unevenly?

 

[J E Custom]

Is it just me? Wouldn't full length bedding of a fluted barrel lock the barrel in the action unless you expertly fill the flutes first and then remove the filler afterwards. Wouldn't it also cause the barrel to heat up and cool down very unevenly?

Yes, It could lock the barrel in if not done right. and would prevent even cooling with repeated shots.
One of the reasons that we float the barrel. Some even go to great lengths to vent the stocks for more cooling.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Tac-O]

My stock came today. It is not what I expected.

The fore end is hollowed out, just like a synthetic stock. So if I want to bed the barrel, I'll have to fill it in with something.

The inletting also leaves a lot to be desired. It's really rough and looks like I'd absolutely have to bed it for it to shoot less than 3" groups. It looks like a 90% inlet.

Is this standard for Boyd's laminate stocks? I'm not sure what I want to do with it. Return or sell it and save for a McMillan or just go with it :/

 

[J E Custom]

My stock came today. It is not what I expected.

The fore end is hollowed out, just like a synthetic stock. So if I want to bed the barrel, I'll have to fill it in with something.

The inletting also leaves a lot to be desired. It's really rough and looks like I'd absolutely have to bed it for it to shoot less than 3" groups. It looks like a 90% inlet.

Is this standard for Boyd's laminate stocks? I'm not sure what I want to do with it. Return or sell it and save for a McMillan or just go with it :/

Everyone complains about the weight of laminated stocks, (Except me and some others that like the strength and balance of them) so many of the manufactures remove some of the stock for this reason. It is easy to fill, but with a good bedding not necessary if you don't wan't to.

The rough in letting is also good for bedding and not intended for a perfect fit. They also advertise that In letting is 95% so the smith can finish it depending on the trigger used. Many triggers for the actions function in different ways and require different in letting that the original
trigger.

In my opinion, no stock can be a perfect fit even with an embed and should be bedded for best accuracy. even the most expensive stocks may have to be inletted in some cases and for sure roughed up to get a good anchor pattern for the bedding compound.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Tac-O]

Everyone complains about the weight of laminated stocks, (Except me and some others that like the strength and balance of them) so many of the manufactures remove some of the stock for this reason. It is easy to fill, but with a good bedding not necessary if you don't wan't to.

The rough in letting is also good for bedding and not intended for a perfect fit. They also advertise that In letting is 95% so the smith can finish it depending on the trigger used. Many triggers for the actions function in different ways and require different in letting that the original
trigger.

In my opinion, no stock can be a perfect fit even with an embed and should be bedded for best accuracy. even the most expensive stocks may have to be inletted in some cases and for sure roughed up to get a good anchor pattern for the bedding compound.

J E CUSTOM

Thanks for the info! I looked all over their website before buying it and didn't see anywhere that they're 95% inlet and need finished. Not sure how I missed that! I guess I can see why they would cut material out of the fore end to make it lighter, but I guess I figured everyone just accepts that laminate stocks are heavy.

If I end up deciding to fill that void later so that I can test out fully bedding the barrel, do you have any suggestions on what to fill it with that will be as light and cheap as possible? I was thinking maybe the lightest cheap epoxy I can find along with remnants of broken carbon arrows for filler. Or, maybe I could embed a couple of aluminum tubes in there with epoxy and make it even stiffer, which would be good if I bed the barrel

 

[WinMag4me]

I have been considering a similar remedy.
I was thinking of embedding titanium rods in the forend to stiffen.
Any thoughts?

 

[J E Custom]

Thanks for the info! I looked all over their website before buying it and didn't see anywhere that they're 95% inlet and need finished. Not sure how I missed that! I guess I can see why they would cut material out of the fore end to make it lighter, but I guess I figured everyone just accepts that laminate stocks are heavy.

If I end up deciding to fill that void later so that I can test out fully bedding the barrel, do you have any suggestions on what to fill it with that will be as light and cheap as possible? I was thinking maybe the lightest cheap epoxy I can find along with remnants of broken carbon arrows for filler. Or, maybe I could embed a couple of aluminum tubes in there with epoxy and make it even stiffer, which would be good if I bed the barrel

A pair of aluminum rods would be good. I would bed them first and get the best fit and later come back and do the rest of the barreled action with the same bedding compound so the two are compatible.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Tac-O]

I think I will have to return it. The pillars were installed too far back to the point where I can't get the rear action screw engaged into the threads. I could drill out the pillars, enlarge the holes and install new pillars, but I paid extra to have them put in so they should be done correctly! I hope their customer service is top notch.

 

[Susquatch]

........ The pillars were installed too far back to the point where I can't get the rear action screw engaged into the threads. I could drill out the pillars, enlarge the holes and install new pillars, but......

Consider milling out the recoil recess enough to move the action reward to match the pillars. I'll bet that is what Boyd intended.

I've used several Boyd stocks now and have always found that they needed work. In one case, the wood was not dried out enough and it moved a fair bit with temp and humidity changes. A year later it seems ok.

Overall, I like the weight and feel of laminated stocks and I like Boyd stocks. They are a great value. I do my own pillars.

I'm not inclined to think that filling the groove with anything will help. Unless any rods or reinforcements are extended under the action, the stock will still bend about the weakest point which will be at the recoil lug recess. Frankly, I see no point in filling the recess - just leave it be. If a client insisted that I fill it, I would use epoxy but add a strong light weight filler like fiberglass or carbon fibre.

That said, I recognize that you want to bed the barrel. But I agree with JECustom. I wouldn't do it for all the reasons he mentioned and a few more. In fact, I had originally drafted a reply before his with an engineering assessment and then deleted it as too controversial and probably too confusing.

For me, the bottom line is that stocks bend depending on how they are held. Bedding only the action works and works reliably. Even if you ignore the engineering aspects, why introduce other factors needlessly?

Good luck!

 

[Tac-O]

Consider milling out the recoil recess enough to move the action reward to match the pillars. I'll bet that is what Boyd intended.

I've used several Boyd stocks now and have always found that they needed work. In one case, the wood was not dried out enough and it moved a fair bit with temp and humidity changes. A year later it seems ok.

Overall, I like the weight and feel of laminated stocks and I like Boyd stocks. They are a great value. I do my own pillars.

I'm not inclined to think that filling the groove with anything will help. Unless any rods or reinforcements are extended under the action, the stock will still bend about the weakest point which will be at the recoil lug recess. Frankly, I see no point in filling the recess - just leave it be. If a client insisted that I fill it, I would use epoxy but add a strong light weight filler like fiberglass or carbon fibre.

That said, I recognize that you want to bed the barrel. But I agree with JECustom. I wouldn't do it for all the reasons he mentioned and a few more. In fact, I had originally drafted a reply before his with an engineering assessment and then deleted it as too controversial and probably too confusing.

For me, the bottom line is that stocks bend depending on how they are held. Bedding only the action works and works reliably. Even if you ignore the engineering aspects, why introduce other factors needlessly?

Good luck!

Yes I thought about just relieving some of the wood to move the action back, but I'd have to remove quite a bit from everything because they're pretty far off center and all the other inletting fits and lines up with the action pretty well. I'd have to remove material from the recoil lug recess where both pillars are, behind the trigger block, and behind the trigger guard. I'd also have to move the recoil lug back, but I think it's glued in. I tried as hard as I could to get it out. I understand needing to do some minor fitment; needing to remove a little more wood to get it to fit just right, etc. But having to remove ALL that wood to get the action shifted far enough back and not being able to get the recoil lug out to be able to do so is a problem. I think it would be easier to drill out the pillars and reinstall my own that I had already made up for my factory stock that I didn't use. I sent them an email, so we'll see what they say. I've got a couple weeks until my probed 2000 arrives anyway.