First shot at annealing.

[Horse1]

Starting with a batch of premium brass (adg, lapua, peterson) you won't notice annealing making much of a difference. It will help prolong case life and help prevent split necks.

I have seen big benefits with odd batches.... say 100 pieces of federal factory that were fired over the course of 5 years. Annealing seems to get them all on the "same page"

Brass life was also my reasoning behind an annealer.

Using a Forster bushing die w/.002 constriction and only sizing about 2/3 of the neck, Lapua 308Win brass would start giving me really wonky vertical dispersion on firing #6. +/- 5"-6" with no discernible pattern of the + or - from POA. I couldn't keep projectiles on a 12x20 plate hung horizontally. Load up a new batch of brass and everything settled right back down. My 243Win, 243AI, and 22-250's using Lapua brass follow the same pattern. I saved all that brass as the primer pockets were still plenty tight.

Within a few weeks of buying an AMP, I resurrected 800+ pieces of Lapua brass in 308, 243, 243AI, and 22-250. I figure the machine roughly 1/2 paid for itself by making excellent brass useable again.

With the recent-past shortages of brass (Lapua 22-250 and several others on the "suspended list) haven't be available for several years now), having a way to keep my brass "healthy" seemed like a worthy expense to me. Also, I never did like the idea of an open flame in my reloading room and I really welcomed the idea of a machine that could analyze fired brass and replicate the annealed results.

Lastly, I'm also an unapologetic gadget acquisition master and the AMP seemed like far too cool of a gadget not to have.

 

[highcaliber]

Following

 

[Mike Matteson]

I purchased a Bench Sourcs, and set it up with hose attachment from a 5gal propane bottle. that way you are not running out of propane. Those small propane tanks are wast of time. Expensive too.
Each time you fire your case it works the brass and makes it harder. So release changes as you fire the cases.
I had found a geat many years ago it extend the life of my brass. It stop the neck splites. It also setup for a better consistences in bullet release. That was done the old water in the pan method. It's come a long ways from then.
You can purchse templaq from Amazon. They have a Marking pen the I feel is easier to use. The come in different heat ranges. So you need to watch out for that.

 

[Philward]

Right when the whole neck turns cherry red.

I keep reading this, so pie cherry, maraschino cherry, bing, or rainier?

 

[rfd]

I keep reading this, so pie cherry, maraschino cherry, bing, or rainier?

For me, NO red at all or at worst a very light tinge at the mouth's rim.

 

[Koda_]

I'm annealing lapua 6.5x284 5x fired. Is under doing it going to affect anything? Would it change neck tension consistency at all?

IMO I don't think its possible to under anneal, though you might experience inconsistent neck tension but I dont think it will hurt brass life.
The tolerance of annealing is so great you wont under or over anneal as long as your consistent, you don't need an expensive machine. I do think it can affect neck tension consistency so the trick is to be consistent with your DIY process, properly done its no different than an expensive machine and can improve group size and ES. You don't need a machine to be consistent with the propane DIY torch method your using you just need to pick a procedure and do it the same every time....
Set the torch flame so its the same distance every time, this will help assure flame temp is consistent each session. Place the brass shoulder in the same exact place on that flame, the neck area has less material and will get enough heat, I use the tip of the flame where I see it wrap around the shoulder a little. Set the drill motor to turn slowly. Dim the lights, at first glow its done. Annealing is about 700deg +\-100 deg, if its glowing your there. It helps to count seconds to glow for consistency, treat all cases in that caliber the same. I find about 5 seconds for small cases like 223, to about 7 or 8 seconds for larger cases like my 280ai. As long as your not exceeding that or going longer than first glow your not over annealing the case.
Some people drop the cases in water, this does not anneal the brass but it does prevent convection from annealing the case head area which you absolutely don't want to do. Some people feel this isn't necessary, though it doesn't hurt anything. IMO if the case head is too hot to hold in my fingertips it gets quenched.

 

[Sdvldog1371]

IMO I don't think its possible to under anneal, though you might experience inconsistent neck tension but I dont think it will hurt brass life.
The tolerance of annealing is so great you wont under or over anneal as long as your consistent, you don't need an expensive machine. I do think it can affect neck tension consistency so the trick is to be consistent with your DIY process, properly done its no different than an expensive machine and can improve group size and ES. You don't need a machine to be consistent with the propane DIY torch method your using you just need to pick a procedure and do it the same every time....
Set the torch flame so its the same distance every time, this will help assure flame temp is consistent each session. Place the brass shoulder in the same exact place on that flame, the neck area has less material and will get enough heat, I use the tip of the flame where I see it wrap around the shoulder a little. Set the drill motor to turn slowly. Dim the lights, at first glow its done. Annealing is about 700deg +\-100 deg, if its glowing your there. It helps to count seconds to glow for consistency, treat all cases in that caliber the same. I find about 5 seconds for small cases like 223, to about 7 or 8 seconds for larger cases like my 280ai. As long as your not exceeding that or going longer than first glow your not over annealing the case.
Some people drop the cases in water, this does not anneal the brass but it does prevent convection from annealing the case head area which you absolutely don't want to do. Some people feel this isn't necessary, though it doesn't hurt anything. IMO if the case head is too hot to hold in my fingertips it gets quenched.

You can absolutely under anneal and over anneal pretty easily as brass is made of copper and is an excellent heat conductor.
If you "under anneal" you've just heated your brass up and it's done nothing at all. If you over anneal which can happen pretty easily, you burn out elements of the alloy like zinc, and it changes the metals properties permanently. When flame annealing, if your brass reaches just the right color or red...and your flame turns a slight color...you cooked your brass. That's why, as cited above, which cherry or cherry red? It is a very small window from dark red to that tiny bit of yellow in your flame that let's you know you ruined your brass.

Also, quenching brass that has been annealed is unnecessary as it does nothing. If your case head is that hot, then your brass is likely over annealed. Induction annealing heats incredibly fast and is very localized. Flame heats slower and more generalized...that's why when you set up your flame annealer you tempilaq about half way down the case, to ensure you're not getting too much heat down too far.

There is a white paper somewhere regarding annealing brass cases. Anybody who just wants to dabble or build DIY machines should find and read it. That's where I got my information when I first started with DIY annealers.

 

[Koda_]

If you "under anneal" you've just heated your brass up and it's done nothing at all. If you over anneal which can happen pretty easily, you burn out elements of the alloy like zinc, and it changes the metals properties permanently.

So if you under anneal and its done nothing then I dont see how you can cause harm. Can you over anneal if you dont go past first glow?

 

[nksmfamjp]

The concern is inconsistentency of annealing. Way too little on a case or a few cases and you will get some cracking. That would lead me to throw them all away. Am I going to check them all for micro cracks?

Too much or too inconsistent leads to variable neck tension which won't shoot well.

 

[Koda_]

The concern is inconsistentency of annealing. Way too little on a case or a few cases and you will get some cracking. That would lead me to throw them all away. Am I going to check them all for micro cracks?

What about all the people who successfully don't anneal at all?

 

[nksmfamjp]

What about all the people who successfully don't anneal at all?

Well, doesn't that give them a consistent anneal?

 

[Koda_]

Well, doesn't that give them a consistent anneal?

If I understand correctly, it doesn't give them an anneal at all the case neck just gets harder with each firing.

 

[southpa]

I and several friends have tested annealed vs not annealed on several calibers and have found zero difference on target with up to 14 reloads on brass. This has also been stated by several people I trust on this site which is why we started experimenting. It doesn't hurt to try for yourself.

You mean to tell me this step of annealing is essentially an exercise in futility .....

 

[dstancu]

The concern is inconsistency of annealing. Way too little on a case or a few cases and you will get some cracking. That would lead me to throw them all away. Am I going to check them all for micro cracks?

Too much or too inconsistent leads to variable neck tension which won't shoot well.

that!