First Elk/Muley Hunt (lessons learned)

[Adikted]

Congrats on a dang nice buck!!! My daughter lives near Bozeman & I have hunted the Crazy Mountains. Love them.
I was a big game guide in Utah before moving to Idaho. A huge problem is the altitude in the west. A lot of clients would do some running to get in shape but when they are at or over 6000 feet the thinner air would really get to them.
Thanks, Kirk

I started jogging again while training for this hunt I, got my 5k time just under 30 minutes on more or less flat ground. About a month before the trip I started jogging the bleachers at the high school around the corner to try to build some stamina in my legs.

I've got no doubt that I was better off for the work, but I'll be focusing more on carrying weight than speed this year.

 

[Monttrap04]

Sounds like you had a good and challenging trip and learned a lot. Most public land elk hunts out here are. My son (12 yo) wants to be in the army and is a bit of a gear nut. The first time we went into some rough country I let him take whatever we wanted. Like yours, his pack keeps getting smaller and smaller

I would disagree on not taking a backpack at all though. I always carry an internal frame backpack that collapses well but is large enough to carry an unboned elk hind quarter. Sure makes life nice when you can take out a load right after the kill.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I am old school. If dry I do cotton. If wet or snow it is all about wool. I layers of polyproy under. Carry a coat in my pack for down time. Good boots!!!! There is a reason some boots are $500

Feenix is right. Never were a heavy outer layer. Wear the min to stay warm while moving. Add subtract layers. When dry and cold I wear 3 or 4 thin layers of poly on top. If wet or snowy I lose 1 or 2 layers and go wool outer. If cold a wool vest over the outer wool shirt. Look at Woolrich.

Nice post. You learned a lot on one trip.

Steve

 

[aspenbugle]

Good observations. It will feel nuts, but when you start out on a big hike, you should start almost just in your base layer/underwear. Even at zero degrees, your body heat will keep you warm, just keep snow out of boots and probably light gloves to keep hands warm. Trick is to carry enough clothing that when you get to a glassing area (or get stranded possibly) you can stay warm. As mentioned, goal is to avoid sweating, and removing layers 1/2 mile from the start is a drag.

Yes, wool is king. Insulates when wet and it's quiet.

Bummer on crowds. Not usually bad, at least in Colorado, when you drive up a 4wd road a ways and get 1/2 mile in from road. MT closes most back country roads during hunting, so sometimes you start from more crowded trailheads. Any place where elk can be spotted from a main road will be a zoo.

As mentioned, nothing beats good quality hiking boots if walking much. Pac boots etc are warm but a drag to walk very far in.

 

[jmac603]

Awesome write up, story and photos. I'm hoping to get out West in the next two years and this info is invaluable. Thank you for sharing.

JM

Early this year I solicited advise on the forum for gear recommendations for a middle/late season Montana Elk/muley hunt. Living in South Carolina I had no idea what I was getting into, all of the hunting I've done has been Southern whitetail. You all came through with some great advise, but with so many opinions coming from so many different parts of the country it was still hard to feel comfortable with my pack list. After 10 months of pondering what ifs and contingencies I ended purchasing WAY more gear than I needed (or wanted to carry). Now that I've actually spent a week in Montana I wanted to post this thread to consolidate the information, share my experience and hopefully save the next man from purchasing (and shipping) all the unneeded stuff I ended up getting.

I went out with my uncle (by marriage) who is a Montana Native and resident. Originally we had discussed going into one of his camps that he and his son in law set in the early season, but some earlier than usual snowfall in the Crazy's snowed his camp in. So, we wound up hunting mostly lower country accessible via road. We tried hiking into higher country 3 of the days but the areas were largely devoid of sign. In retrospect we should have probably pushed harder into the high country but its hard to convince yourself that there's bulls up there when you're looking at herds of 200-300 elk grazing on the private ranches. So with all this in mind, here's my lessons learned, and advise for a flat lander like myself.

Lesson 1: You don't need as many layers as you think you do.

I went out with UA 2.0 base layers tops and bottoms, UA 3.0 tops, Minus33 230g/m merino bottoms a Minus33 420g/made merino 1/4 zip sweatshirt, an LLbean ultimate big game liner Jacket (I got the Goretex big game Jacket for a shell which I love) , 2 pairs of Cabelas Outfitter Wooltimate pants, and an assortment of UA Barrier and Softer shell stuff most of which never came out of the stuff sacks I packed them in.

I spent most of my time sweating. The coldest temp we saw was 13 degrees. That morning I was wearing the Cabelas pants and 2.0 base layers, with my LLBean goretex jacket and liner. 3 minutes into hiking up hill at daylight and I'm dripping sweat. That morning we hiked about 7 miles round trip and climbed from 6500 feet to 8500 feet. My liner jacket ended up in my day pack with my spare set of base layer's I had brought IN CASE I GOT COLD. With the snow being nearly knee deep I didn't want to take my pants off to remove my bottom base layer, the result was being hot all day and coming back to camp dehydrated. If I could do again I would wear the wool pants, with the Gortex parka and liner jacket and keep a single pair of baselayers in my bag for when/if we stopped to glass long enough to get cold.

Lesson 2: Zippered legs on your pants can be a blessing or a curse.

One of the threads I read recommended a GOOD set of snow gaiters. That was sage advise however, I didn't get a good set. Not because I'm cheap, but because it was difficult for me to tell the difference between good ones and bad ones shopping on Amazon. (Snow gaiters aren't something the stores keep here) My bad Gaiters were working ok but lacked a closure at the top to keep the zippers from creeping down. At about hour 2 of pulling the zipper back up every 10 minutes or so, I pulled the zipper clear off. Then started the arduous process of pulling the zipper's on my pants down every so often to try to keep the snow from working its way over the top of my boot. Fortunately, the zippers on my pants are tougher than the ones on my gaiters. As time went on it got harder and harder to get my pants to zip all the way down. (Solved this on day two with Duct tape before leaving camp.) I can't however, completely denounce the zippered legs. Later in the week (once I'd quit wearing the base layers) we were hustling up hill in the afternoon, being able to pull the zippers up to cool my legs down was the ticket!

So my advise is if you're going to have zippers on your legs (gaiters or pants) make sure there's some kind of closure at the end to keep it from working its way open. Also, if your hunting in snow deeper than your ankle go ahead and wrap the bottom of your pants with duct tape.

Lesson 3: Make sure your snow boots have a Knobby tread.

My uncle is taller than I, but of a comparable weight. I'd walk in areas where he climbed with a sure foot and wind up on my butt or face. The extra time energy you spend trying to drag yourself back up onto your feet really takes a toll on you by the end of the day. I'm seriously considering carrying some kind of ice cleats or crampon next time.

Lesson 4: TREKKING POLES

I started out not carrying mine because I didn't think I'd be able to manage them while carrying my rifle. Even one makes a huge difference keeping yourself on your feet especially when descending.

Lesson 5: Seriously only carry what you need.

My first morning going into the higher country I was carrying a pack that weighed about 25 lbs on top of my binos and rifle. I was carrying game bags, first aid kit, a fire starter and survival kit, spare batteries and some other stuff not important enough for me to remember. 2 miles and 1500 feet later I tied that pack to a tree on the trail with an orange hat hooked to it. I regularly trained with 40 lbs packs hiking about 8 miles with 1700 ft of accent topping out at 3200 ft in the blue ridge. (the only trail within day trip distance of my house) I wasn't anywhere near prepared to carry 40 lbs at 8000 feet, by mid day I had all but quit hunting and was merely enduring. On day 2, I stripped my gear down to an emergency Blanket, fire starter, drag rope, skinning knife, and the things I actually needed to hunt Rifle, bino's, gps, water, etc. At that weight I could go all day. On day 3, I realized all of that would fit in my jacket and pants and I quit carrying the backpack.

Lesson 6: Wool For snow.

My wool pants were awesome for snow once I got the zipper issue sorted out. I sat in on a hillside for 3 hours one afternoon in a 20 mph wind at 25 degrees, it snowed about 3" on top of the 8" that was already on the ground. I tucked myself into a small Fir for shelter and cover while we waited for the bulls we'd seen the evening before to come down. My legs never got cold (chest and arms were a different story). The wool pants seem heavy when you put them on, but don't seem to get any heavier when they get damp.

I also bought a relatively inexpensive set of 100% wool knit gloves with a thinsulate liner. The only time they got cold was when I took my hands out of them, no matter how wet they got.

Lesson 7: DWR finish doesn't make Gore Tex.

My UA pants were great until I had to sit or kneel in the snow wearing them. Then wetness crept through the fabric and I really noticed the wind making me cold.
The exception to this was my UA Barrier Bib, I sat right down in the snow wearing that for about an hour and it kept me dry and the wind wasn't noticeable. I bought it large expecting to wear many layers beneath it though so at the insulation level I ended up being comfortable with it was cumbersome.

Advice : If your going to wear a non wool shell in the snow make sure its truly waterproof (and therefore windproof). Buy one good pair of Gore Tex, or similar material pant, and wear it every day if need be, instead of 3 good DWR treated pants rotating days to get a dry pair.

Lesson 8: Unless you're independently wealthy, drive.

I ended my hunt without a Bull but was rewarded for my efforts with a big muley. I had shipped most of my gear ahead via fed ex in a large cooler and a large box. By the time I get my muley back from the processor I will have spent 2000 dollars getting myself, my gear, and my game through this hunt. As I get paid less than a 1000 dollars a day , I'll be taking two extra days off next year and driving out and back. On a side note, United Airlines charges $150 dollars for a third bag. You won't find that out until you're standing at the gate if their website is down as it was when I tried to check.

Summary:
As far as clothing is concerned here's what I'm planning to take for next years hunt.
2 Minus 33 230g/m base layer bottoms 2 UA 2.0 base layer tops
1 Gore Tex pant (LLBean or Sitka, undecided)
1 wool pants(sticking with the Cabelas till they wear out)
1 Minus 33 420g/m sweatshirt
1 LLBean Gore Tex parka with liner jacket
4 pairs Merino wool socks (medium cushion)
1 pair Gore Tex hiking boots
1 Stormy Kromer Hat
1 pair Knit wool lined gloves
1 Pair of GOOD snow gaiters
1 wind proof neck gaiter
1 Deluth trading suspenders
1 Pair cold weather rubber snow boots (I have Muck Arctic sports but I haven't decided if I'm going to try them with some kind of ice cleat or try to find a pair with better tread)

I really believe I can get down close to zero degrees with some combination of the clothes above in relative comfort.

As far as gear I wouldn't do this hunt again with out, not including stuff for camping.
Rifle (obviously)
Good flip up scope caps
Electrical tape (for muzzle cover and tagging game)
Trekking Poles
Binoculars 10x-15x w/harness
GPS unit
Canteen of some sort
Good Skinning knife
Large emergency blanket
25' of Polypropylene rope (for dragging or hanging game)
Good magnesium fire starter
Butane lighter (magnesium is a pain in butt if its not necessary)
Game bags (left at camp)
Frame pack for packing meat out (also left at camp)
Duct tape (left at camp)


Everything else I brought ended up staying in the truck or back at camp.

Things I'm considering picking up:
Some form of ice cleat, leaning towards the Katahoola micro spikes.
A sling for my rifle that lets me keep my hands free to use trekking poles while still letting me deploy the rifle quickly
Some kind of ammo holder to keep spare cartridges on my belt or rifleView attachment 84659 View attachment 84660 View attachment 84661 View attachment 84662

 

[CLL]

Great info on your trip , I have found that if you can ship some gear well ahead , this saves some $'s on the air fair baggage robbery .
As I get older the altitude sickness can be a real hampering even to people who are in great shape .
There can be so many variables in weather during the general season it's hard to nail down exactly what layers and amount to pack .
If you can give yourself time to acclimate , a few days or a week , great .
Water is your friend , drink lots , hydrate hydrate hydrate .
I'm a fan of the Stormy Kromer type wool hat . As well as wool pants .
I do like my UA medium jacket up top flexible yet windproof .
This is what I like ,

 

[midnightmalloy]

Dang, read this entire post. I think there are a number of things that I would suggest differently from the original poster after actually living in the west and hunting a lot at these high elevations.

So layering doesn't mean wearing all the layers. You should be fairly cold when you start hiking, which once you learn, means if it's 20 degrees you pretty much leave the truck with a couple layers of merino on your torso and that's it.

I would NEVER suggest to others leaving your backpack and you should ALWAYS carry a survival and first aid kit especially in the high mountain west in the fall/winter. No offense, but that is bad advice.

Most of the advice in this original post is due to not being in adequate shape for the environment that is being hunted. Also suggesting that hunting elk is not a solo endeavor is also not good advice as many of us do it all the time.

In the west here is usually how it goes: leave the truck and hike hard for 30 min-4 hours, Stop and glass for 30 min- 10 hours, stay there and shoot or race like hell to get to a shooting spot. Shoot and kill an animal if you do it right. Then you need to skin, quarter, take all the meat, hang it in game bags and then hike all of it out, not leaving any usable meat (even if you are sore and tired)!

I have seen a truck load of out of state hunters or out of the west hunters to be more precise, and it's usually that they THINK they can do it but once they get here and after the first two days they are at the bar telling stories.

My advice is to get in real shape, I mean 50% more than you think you need. For reference I can easily hike at sea level on rolling hills with 80-90 lbs for 6-12 miles without killing myself. At 8000+' 40 lbs is just as hard or slightly harder.

Also another suggestion for hunters that don't have any experience in the high mountain west is to start small. Get an any Mule deer tag for 2-4 years and learn the game before you jump into elk. Or just save your money, hire a high dollar private ranch outfitter and shoot a huge deer/elk and tell a good story. I'm not trying to be a downer but many of us have seen this too many times and it's just hard to watch. These are the guys that leave meat in the field, mess up too many hunts and put a bad taste in the ranchers and locals mouths about hunters.

Take advice from those that ACTUALLY hunt these places not keyboard experts that have no clue what it is actually like but regurgitate something they have heard. Get a clothing system, backpack system, binos, rangefinder and rifle system that mimics those that actually do this type of hunting and you will be happier.

 

[Adikted]

Deleted. Yeah, decided not to feed it

 

[Adikted]

Great info on your trip , I have found that if you can ship some gear well ahead , this saves some $'s on the air fair baggage robbery .
As I get older the altitude sickness can be a real hampering even to people who are in great shape .
There can be so many variables in weather during the general season it's hard to nail down exactly what layers and amount to pack .
If you can give yourself time to acclimate , a few days or a week , great .
Water is your friend , drink lots , hydrate hydrate hydrate .
I'm a fan of the Stormy Kromer type wool hat . As well as wool pants .
I do like my UA medium jacket up top flexible yet windproof .
This is what I like ,

I shipped most of my gear ahead of me and then flew back with it, if I had brought just what I actually used I could have saved a ton of money on shipping.

I'll still drive next year, the shipping on meat is just too high, it costs over 1500 to ship a processed elk back to my house, just shipping.

 

[huntnfishrick]

All good stuff here...you have learned much. Backpack hunting will teach you a lot if you have the basics, and if you don't, you can die out there. I have backpacked all over the west, I am from the east, and have sheep hunted the. MacKenzies with backpack as well several times. One tip not seen here is no matter how good a shape your in from the east, you have to go moderate the first 3 days. Day one and two will be ok, day 3 you may feel a bit "depressed" and have to really push, by day four, your body will be adjusted and you will wake with the energy needed. It's all fun, and if it works for you....thats what matters. I too have worn the "stormy chromer" for years, same color...ENJOY....the years pass too quick.

 

[Adikted]

All good stuff here...you have learned much. Backpack hunting will teach you a lot if you have the basics, and if you don't, you can die out there. I have backpacked all over the west, I am from the east, and have sheep hunted the. MacKenzies with backpack as well several times. One tip not seen here is no matter how good a shape your in from the east, you have to go moderate the first 3 days. Day one and two will be ok, day 3 you may feel a bit "depressed" and have to really push, by day four, your body will be adjusted and you will wake with the energy needed. It's all fun, and if it works for you....thats what matters. I too have worn the "stormy chromer" for years, same color...ENJOY....the years pass too quick.

I think I've been misunderstood a little. At only one point during my trip was I more than a 30 minute hike from my Uncles truck or cabin. We were in areas he's been hunting for 40 years. I'm not suggesting that someone should go into the back country without adequate gear.

If the weather had been more cooperate my experience would have been drastically different and I'm sure I would have taken way different things away from it.

What my uncle tried to tell me (and I didn't listen the first day) is that a lot of the stuff that I thought I wanted to carry were really comfort and convenience items.


I would like to hear what you consider necessary items for your survival kit, I had a magnesium fire starter with a flint, some matches in a weather proof canister, a cigarette lighter, a double sized survival blanket, and the rope we carried for dragging or hanging a carcass.

I definitely felt better the second and third day.

 

[graywolf]

I've been a mountaineer for much longer than I've been a hunter, and the appreciation for going light and fast was developed a long time ago. There are great options in light and functional gear and clothes that have developed over time. I would look towards mountaineering manufacturers like Black Diamond, Patagonia, Arcteryx. There's no defined list of things to bring because it always depends on your environment and how long you might be out. But being sensible to me means decisions like bringing one new butane lighter, not waterproof matches and magnesium fire starter and a lighter. A good light pack. A light good warm windproof hat and jacket. Packing an elk out is work.

 

[Adikted]

I've been a mountaineer for much longer than I've been a hunter, and the appreciation for going light and fast was developed a long time ago. There are great options in light and functional gear and clothes that have developed over time. I would look towards mountaineering manufacturers like Black Diamond, Patagonia, Arcteryx. There's no defined list of things to bring because it always depends on your environment and how long you might be out. But being sensible to me means decisions like bringing one new butane lighter, not waterproof matches and magnesium fire starter and a lighter. A good light pack. A light good warm windproof hat and jacket. Packing an elk out is work.

I hear you, it's probably my inexperience talking but I've got a hard time feeling comfortable with only carrying a two dollar lighter knowing that a fire could be the difference between life and death. Maybe I'll get there.

Any advice on emergency shelter, do you think the mylar blankets are really useful? Is there another route that's better?
I've considered a silnylon tarp or maybe a gi poncho like we used in the Army, would the added durability be worth the weight?

 

[eric1115]

I think I've been misunderstood a little. At only one point during my trip was I more than a 30 minute hike from my Uncles truck or cabin. We were in areas he's been hunting for 40 years. I'm not suggesting that someone should go into the back country without adequate gear.

If the weather had been more cooperate my experience would have been drastically different and I'm sure I would have taken way different things away from it.

What my uncle tried to tell me (and I didn't listen the first day) is that a lot of the stuff that I thought I wanted to carry were really comfort and convenience items.


I would like to hear what you consider necessary items for your survival kit, I had a magnesium fire starter with a flint, some matches in a weather proof canister, a cigarette lighter, a double sized survival blanket, and the rope we carried for dragging or hanging a carcass.

I definitely felt better the second and third day.

Hi all, long time lurker and first post here. As an Idaho elk hunter, I can say for certain that it is easy to be sitting just a 30 min hike from camp or truck, late afternoon, and see an animal you want to go after, 1-3 miles in the opposite direction from camp. Hike that mile or two, re-acquire animal, he has moved another half mile, close that distance, pull the trigger at last light and even with great shot placement an elk can cover some distance dead on his feet. Now you need to quarter him, and before you know it, it is 10pm and you have a few hours' hike back to truck or camp. Throw in weather and you could be in trouble. At minimum, you would like to be able to haul out some meat on the first trip back.

Not saying you were not prepared for that, but it sneaks up on a lot of guys who have the mindset of "I can see my truck from here, no need to go overboard on gear."

I have had several times where the gut pile was a couple miles from where I was sitting when I spotted the elk.

Eric