First Custom Rifle Concerns

[Ginga]

I'd go 7 saum (only because I've got one!). 20 inch barrel plus suppressor so you can carry it, not too long and balances for off hand shot.

I live in New Zealand and a 7 saum that is short and suppressed is very popular. Also 7 rem mag. hunting country can be steep and hard so heavy, long unwieldy rifles soon get left at home.

Good luck on the build!

 

[P7M13]

No suggestion on caliber as that's been beat to death. Pretty cool to have so many choices though.
My comment is on the barrel length. 20-22" is great. You can go with a lighter profile too as it's stiffer at shorter lengths.
However, note that the recoil will be more, the sound *much* more, especially with a brake, (omit if you will be suppressed), and the velocity will be lower. I have a 20" 7mm-08 mountain rifle and fall easily 200fps below what load books suggest when using 24 or 26" test barrels.

Considering all this is for a 1K to 1 mile gun, I cannot understand why you would want to short yourself on your tube. Granted, you say slaying game at 700 and 1000 - but guys I know pull off their 26 & 28" barrels and put on 30 inchers for that purpose. Given also that at these distances, you *will* be supported in your shooting and so, unless you have a long hike in, weight is not so much a factor.
Not offering as a suggested caliber, but I built a 338 edge for a mile, and a 7mmLRM for 1K, because of their ballistics and success bucking the wind. I love the 7LRM, but I do not think it's a caliber with a long future ahead of it.

 

[Brad7348]

I will never understand all the guys on here that say they want a short barrel rifle that shoots long range, doesn't make any sense to me, you give up way too much just to have a few less inches of barrel.

Agree. I used to be one of those short barrel advocates, but quickly figured out that when shooing larger heavier projectiles and slower powders you can still get great accuracy and more velocity out of a longer lighter profile barrel, and come in with a lighter rifle in some instances. These days I wouldn't build anything shorter than 24" and my go to rifle shooting heavier projectiles has a 25" barrel (26.5 with a brake) . Now that being said, I don't and don't plan to hunt with a suppressor. I can understand the quest for a shorter rifle if you are planning to screw a suppressor on the end and have to carry that around through brush etc. With a longer barrel the suppressor throws the rifle balance off a bunch too so it makes it hard to carry "barrel up" and it wants to flip and slide your sling over your shoulder not to mention you bang it on every low branch you are trying to walk under because the suppressor tip is up over your head a bit. (A heavy short barrel rifle does the same thing which is why I went with a lighter barrel on my last few builds) IMO If I were planning to build a short suppressed rifle, I would look at a caliber/load combo that burns 4350 ish speed powder. A few years ago I had a 6.5x47 that had a 24" barrel that I cut down to 22" and the change made a minimal difference in velocity so I know that it was reaching close to its max velocity before it exited the 22" barrel. (Shooting 130s) Oddly enough the cut down opened up the groups about 1/4 MOA and I could never find a good node for it again. I have loaded 4831SC (a bit slower than 4350) in my 7 SAUM with lighter 165s and it shot well, but I think that you would still lose a lot of velocity going to a 22" barrel with that combo. Never tried 4350 in my 7 SAUM, although there is load data for it on the Hodgdon site. I would think that some rifles would see early pressure signs with this combo though unless you were loading a lighter projectile.

My best performing rifles are the ones that I load the heavier projectiles for that caliber (6.5 in 140s, 7mm in 180s, 338 in 300s etc.) , and the slower powders that I can find load data for. Not sure why but my SD seems to always be much tighter with those combos. The rifle I have that produces the absolute best SD is my 338 Lapua shooting 300gr pills over Retumbo. (It may also be that the % variation in powder weight difference from bullet to bullet gets so much smaller when you go to such a big cartridge) Meaning being off by 1/10th grain on a cartridge that holds 100 gr of powder equates to less deviation in velocity than a 1/10th grain variation in a cartridge that holds half as much powder.

Don't know if any of this is useful for your cause. But thought I would share since I have picked up on so much from the forum over the last 10 years. But generally speaking long range hunting and short barrels do present another small obstacle to overcome. You need velocity and bullet weight to really be accurate AND deadly out at extreme distance. With a short barrel you struggle to burn the powder needed to fully accelerate the projectile to reach good velocity, or you trade off to a lighter projectile and a faster powder. You will be compromising on one or the other.

Lastly, I have heard of people running slower powders and short barrels having issues with the unburned powder etching the insides and vents on their muzzle brakes. I have never experienced this but it does make some sense. Not sure what that might do to a suppressor, but I cant imagine it would be good. Interested to hear if anyone else has run across this?

 

[schmi015]

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[RH300UM]

I am looking to build my first custom rifle. I didn't know this would be so hard deciding on what I want and what would best suit my needs.

I want a long range cartridge that provides the least amount of recoil and that will have good performance in a short barrel (suppressed).

I was originally thinking a 7 saum to shoot 180 gr Berger Hybrids. Then I hear that a short action is too short to seat them properly and get performance. I then thought, hey the 7 SS would work. I am not crazy about the Hornady dies (no real reason though). Then I thought, the 7 SST has nice Forster dies, but will I get the performance? Then I thought, I'll do a long action 7 saum, but that seems like a waste and XM actions/stocks are super hard to get.

What should I do?

Looking at the following parts list:
Kelby Atlas Tactical
Rock Creek Carbon Barrel
AG Composite Alpine Hunter (maybe adjustable)
Trigger Tech Primary

Please help guide me!
Steve

7saum works perfect in a remy short action
Mine shoots the 180's @3014 fps
Travis at RBROS rifles has built hundreds of these and has it perfected. I'd highly suggest giving him a call

 

[ntsqd]

The way that I see it cartridges intended for short action are not required to only ever be put in short actions. Put the 7mm SAUM or a 7mm WSM in a long action, and then what bullets fit in the magazine?

 

[snox801]

@reelamin

However, none of that recommendation is what I am looking for. A 26" barrel with a 7" suppressor would be extremely long. A 7 or 300 mag would do you requirements, but a 7 SS does your requirements at the distances I am wanting to shoot with half the powder and at least 30% less recoil.

So for what your looking for keep in mind that the larger the bullet diameter on any given case allows for a short barrel to get same speed.
If you have a .223 case and you neck up to a 6mm you can get the same speed as the .223 with shorter barrel for same weight bullet.
That being said I would move straight to a .30 cal of some kind. You have the great bc without having an incredibly long bullet.
I love my customs and that part of the fun but you have many choices of very good .300 win mag in factory rifles you could choose from then take the saved money and send it out for custom loaded ammo. I'd say around 22-24" would be ideal with a can. I have some longer and shorter but like you said they get looooong with cans on them

 

[wasskeet]

If you're going to go 7 SAUM and it's in the budget - you may see if the gun Alex Wheeler had for sale awhile back is still available. Bat Vampire action and Wheeler built would make for a hard to beat rifle.

 

[CNY Yote Hunter]

I use a 300 WSM with a 23" barrel, it's a Savage model 110 bear hunter. Has a break on it so that's why it's 23" not the advertised 24". Anyways, that is right in the ball park for what you are looking for shooting 180 accubonds, not a whole lot of kick and easy out to 1k. Reloading is easy and I have plenty of room for the heaviest of projectiles seated way out and they still fit with ease. But…. Unfortunately Savage has been hit or miss lately so I'm not really recommending them but the 300 wsm I will!!

 

[richhymas]

I had a 300 WSM built. 22" barrel. I use a thunder beast suppressor. Carbon barrel. I tried several bullets and have been thrilled with the 180 grain scirocco. It's good to 1000 for deer and 700 for elk. Very accurate (1/3 MOA at 500 yards). That bullet is an excellent balance of penetration and expansion.

 

[Lowdown]

1st off there is not enough kinetic energy out of A 6.5 creedmore to shoot a deer at that distance Your maximum kill range should only beshould only be to around 700 yd you are pushing it to try and kill something at that 1000 yd range With the 6.5 creedmore Evidently people like to watch animals run away and never recover

Truth for sure !!!!

 

[Lowdown]

As a retired gunsmith and gunmaker I will tell you what I built the most of for elk and deer was the 25-06! I don't understand why your shooting at such long ranges but I've shot alot of both in my 70 years of hunting, doubt if I ever shot big game at over 200 yds!

Now that's hunting eh!!!

 

[BoomFlop]

Yeah, I'm not sure how the Creedmoor entered this conversation.

 

[squeeeeze]

Yeah, I'm not sure how the Creedmoor entered this conversation.

It was only a matter of time

I was worried about bringing up my 7WSM built on a short action shooting 180's lol