FIREFORMING - The Fred Zeglin method

[Hugnot]

Lots of common sense solutions. I use grits or cream of whatever and TP and shoot off the works into a 6 foot long, 4 inch diameter capped PVC (white) pipe that formerly contained my 2 pc. surf rods in my garage wearing muffs & eye protection. I discovered that 12 grains of TiteGroup was excessive and caused loose primer pockets upon fireforming .338-06 from .30-06 to get a nice concentric neck. My Ackley improved chambers are cut short to give a nice crush fit to avoid brass stretching. Be careful, that pistol powder is frisky and best to use two firings than to go excessive on the 1st. Some use no filler and just dump in powder and shoot straight up - hope to try this when nobody can see me, not shooting at birds.

 

[GLTaylor]

I've done just Bullseye, no filler, hold them vertical, worked fine. More than 20 grs loosened primer pockets!

 

[waveslayer]

Why not get a hydro forming die from Whidden? No shooting involved?

 

[Alibiiv]

A little wad of toilet paper has been all I ever needed. I take a traditional wooden pencil with a new eraser and just use that eraser to tamp down the tissue wad. I reckon you'd need something else for smaller calibers but that works great in the 35 WAI. If you're going to keep everything vertical you can get away with no wad at all, and just pour in the COW just before chambering and firing.

I use the wad of toilet paper to FF .270AIs. Just curious if the "35 WAI" is a typo "O" or is this a cartridge. I'm always looking for another .35 caliber cartridge.

 

[Alibiiv]

Why not get a hydro forming die from Whidden? No shooting involved?

I spent a lot of money on a hydro form die from Hornady, it never worked properly at all, and....it was returned to the factory and it still has never worked; and...there's only been around 14 rounds formed with this die. What I have found is there's as much work with the hydro from die as there is with the COW method.

 

[TRexF16]

I use the wad of toilet paper to FF .270AIs. Just curious if the "35 WAI" is a typo "O" or is this a cartridge. I'm always looking for another .35 caliber cartridge.

Sorry - .35 Whelen Ackley Improved (WAI). I referenced it earlier in the thread so just used a common abbreviation in my subsequent post.

Cheers,
Rex

 

[blackbrush1]

I use a tired barrel that still halfway shoots. Chamber it with the same reamer and headspace. I get to practice and use up old components too. It's a win all the way around.

 

[Alibiiv]

Sorry - .35 Whelen Ackley Improved (WAI). I referenced it earlier in the thread so just used a common abbreviation in my subsequent post.

Cheers,
Rex

Thanks I've got a Whelen that I black bear hunt with. The .35 Whelen AI sounded interesting however I am not sure about how much more rifle is needed to kill a black bear. I shot one a couple of years ago with a .225gr Barnes TSX at a bear that was frontal with its back end slightly to the left, the exit hole was the size of my fist coming out just behind the left shoulder. And....I'm stealing the thread....... I like the performance that I get out of the .270 AI, but it's a PITA to fire form brass. I did find something interesting in one of the replies about primer pockets loosening , this is not something I thought would happen with fire forming using the COW method. I usually will get only three reloadings out of my brass before the primer pockets start to loosen up.

 

[DocDoc]

Alibiiv,
If you are only getting 3 loadings from a .270 AI, you might want to back off on the gas. Of course, Federal and Hornady brass can be pretty soft, but even then more reloads are better. It also depends on accuracy, that is my priority.

 

[Alibiiv]

Alibiiv,
If you are only getting 3 loadings from a .270 AI, you might want to back off on the gas. Of course, Federal and Hornady brass can be pretty soft, but even then more reloads are better. It also depends on accuracy, that is my priority.

My thoughts exaclty, but....I'm using Hornady brass. I have been trying to get quality brass, however cannot seem to connect.. Either they are out of stock or never intend to make brass for the .270 Winchester. I started out using a bunch of Winchester brass because I was not familiar with fire forming brass or the process at all. I figured if I was going to mess things up it might be a good idea to mess up something that didn't cost me a whole lot. I've got the process down, now have to find some quality brass in this current market. I don't go for velocity, always strive for accuracy. I'll do a ladder test starting one-half to a grain under maximum and go from there Thanks for the reply back.

 

[parshal]

I also use a tired barrel to fireform about 800 cases of 65SS and 22 Creed from 22-250 brass. Forming with COW gives me more case length but I've had issues with COW getting baked in corners of sharp necks. I've taken to using a bore scope to inspect the inside of every case. I'd say about 5% have residual COW that has to be scraped out after using an ultrasonic cleaner to loosen it.

 

[RYEWSKY25284]

Some use toilet tissue, I've used Dacron - think I'll try a bar of soap like @ButterBean - anything to keep the corn meal from getting around the shoulder.
Typically takes two firings get the case to form completely in the chamber.
One caution here: Without the bullet or something to keep the cartridge case back against the bolt face, when the firing pin strikes, if the cartridge is not held against the bolt face, the pin will push the case forward, and some of the stretch will happen at the case head, possibly leading to premature case head separation.

Lately with the cost of primers, powder and bullets, let alone wear and tear on the barrel, seems a hydraulic case former (I believe Whidden makes one?) is a cost effective solution.

10-4 Whidden does make one.
Wish I would have bought one before undertaking recent COW method (200 pieces) 223AI). The part I forgot about the COW method was........DO NOT use instant COW (WHAT A MESS).
Use original long cook method COW.
The hydraulic die is defiantly the way to go.

 

[TexSavage]

Way back in the late 70's early 80's we used Crisco in 3030 brass to fireform the 30 & 357 Herrett in our contenders. Shot into a 50 gallon trash can, made a heck of a noise. Now a days the neighbors would just blow a gasket if I started that up again. Hmm, come to think about it, might just have to oblige them and assist with regasketing!

 

[parshal]

Way back in the late 70's early 80's we used Crisco in 3030 brass to fireform the 30 & 357 Herrett in our contenders. Shot into a 50 gallon trash can, made a heck of a noise. Now a days the neighbors would just blow a gasket if I started that up again. Hmm, come to think about it, might just have to oblige them and assist with regasketing!

LOL. I did that with COW into a 50 gallon can and then the tractor bucket. One of the neighbors was none too happy!