Fired Brass Can't be Re-Sized

[woolecox]

Neck size the cases. But in autoloader that might not work. Bolt rifle no problem .

Yep, thought of that. It might work for a firing or two. I have not tried it yet, so it might not work at all. But I have gotten into the habit of using a Redding S type die to bump the shoulder back .001" and neck size at the same time. Paired with Redding's Precision Shell Holder set gives you a lot of control over bump and neck tension.

I did try the Type S on these cases with the +.010 shell holder. That was the die that the soft Hornady brass would go through, with excessive force. The Lapua and Federal brass would not.

I do this for my bolt gun hunting loads and for PRS competition. I don't want a sticky bolt in either situation.

The Forster Bushing Bump Neck dies have worked well (normal chambers) for me as well.

 

[Skeetman77]

I had this same problem with an LMT AR10 in 6.5 Creedmoor. An adjustable Gas block would have potentially solved this problem but LMT design doesn't allow for gas block swap out without huge costs in gunsmithing fees. I sold the rifle to a non4reloader and he is very happy with it.

What is the make of your AR10?
T

 

[woolecox]

I had this same problem with an LMT AR10 in 6.5 Creedmoor. An adjustable Gas block would have potentially solved this problem but LMT design doesn't allow for gas block swap out without huge costs in gunsmithing fees. I sold the rifle to a non4reloader and he is very happy with it.

What is the make of your AR10?
T

Please explain. How would adjustable gas block have helped with blown out oversized brass that can't be resized?

I am not going to disclose the manufacturer until they have had a chance to respond. I am calling as I type but the phone is just ringing. No answer.

Edit: By the way, I have a Falkor Defense Omega 6.5 Creedmoor. It has functioned flawlessly. Hand loads have matched factory Hornady loads. Tack driver accurate, more so than my 7.62 and reloading fired brass is no problem.

 

[gator378]

I can probably write the company's response;

"We did not build this rifle for reloaders. We built it for war fighters so it would function with any ammo under any conditions. And, that is exactly what it does."

Hope I'm wrong.

I reload for my FAL, M14, and Rock River using once fired LC brass. No problems yet. Redding dies

 

[woolecox]

I reload for my FAL, M14, and Rock River using once fired LC brass. No problems yet. Redding dies

A buddy of mine has two FAL's and he has no problem with reloads either.

 

[Wallrat]

I just got a factory new AR10 chambered in 7.62 NATO (308Win). My first 7.62 auto loader. I am a reloader. I have been doing it for 30 years now. I have been an active Bench Rest, PRS, and IDPA competitor and, reload for all those disciplines. I also reload all my hunting ammo. So, I am pretty sure I know what I am doing and am confident my equipment is up to and exceeds par.

Using a box of new Lapua 308 Win brass I had on hand, I loaded up several "ladders" that consisted of 168SMK, 175SMK, 175VLD-H, and 178ELD-X. All respectable bullets. All were loaded using various weights of Varget power, and GM210M primers. All top shelf components. None of the loads were anywhere near max. In most, at least two full grains short. No over pressure signs.

I also shot a couple of factory loads, Hornady Black 168AMAX, and Federal Gold Medal Match. All reloads and factory ammo functioned flawlessly except the factory Fed GMM. It was not powerful enough to strip the next round from the magazine and closed on an empty chamber. "CLICK". The GMM did function flawlessly with the gun suppressed but the groups were terrible. All other groups were near or under 1 MOA for 5 shots. The best was the 178ELD-X that grouped .62" and clocked 2500 fps. It's a 20" barrel.

To the point: All cases except for the Hornady case will not go through my resizing dies. Even with the Hornady I really had to stand on the lever to get them sized. When I measured the fired cases, all dimensions were around a full .01" larger than factory new. A full hundredth. No way they are going through a die. Yes, I used multiple dies; Redding FL, Redding Type S, Redding Shoulder Bump, Forster FL, and Forster Bushing Bump. Not happening.

So the question: Can this be anything other than an extremely loose chamber?

I am going to contact the factory as soon as possible but, that may be impossible with most companies being flat on their butt "due to COVID".

Here is one of the better groups. The factory Hornady AMAX did just as well.
View attachment 205436

Just out of curiosity, what make of gun is it?

 

[woolecox]

Neither bigger die, custom die, nor smaller die, will undo all the bad things about cases expanding so much.

I agree. That brass has been way overworked. I would not reuse it.

 

[woolecox]

Just out of curiosity, what make of gun is it?

See post #31.

 

[Randy Tidwell]

This will not help with your currant issue, but for years the case lube I use is STOS (Slicker Than Owl S$$t) from Ponness Warren.

Helps with hard to size cases. Have not found a better case lube.

 

[woolecox]

This will not help with your currant issue, but for years the case lube I use is STOS (Slicker Than Owl S$$t) from Ponness Warren.

Helps with hard to size cases. Have not found a better case lube.

I will check it out. Is it easy to clean off?

 

[rsbhunter]

I agree with the chamber casting solution. That will answer all the questions...if it is to spec, then the builder/manufacturer is out of the equation, for the most part. If it is out of spec (oversized) then the seller should be held accountable. Give them a chance to make it right at their expense, if they don't, then there are other avenues to encourage them to do the right thing. Have a cast made by a gunsmith, this removes the doubt that "you didn't do it correctly". Not that it is faulty, but take one step at a time, and it will be resolved.rsbhunter

 

[Jeremy67A]

I had the same problem. A blow torch and a short base sizing die worked for me.

 

[jmvincent]

Have you compared the fired case measurements to the SAAMI specs. It sounds like you would be quite a ways over Spec if you can't get them to go through a sizing die. I don't care what the company built the rifle for, it still needs to conform or their needs to be a warning to the buyer prior to purchase.

308 is page 122. If you put that in the page count right at the top of the screen and hit enter it will save you scrolling through 121 pages.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

Don't forget you will need a small base sizing does due to being an autoloader

 

[woolecox]

I agree with the chamber casting solution. That will answer all the questions...if it is to spec, then the builder/manufacturer is out of the equation, for the most part. If it is out of spec (oversized) then the seller should be held accountable. Give them a chance to make it right at their expense, if they don't, then there are other avenues to encourage them to do the right thing. Have a cast made by a gunsmith, this removes the doubt that "you didn't do it correctly". Not that it is faulty, but take one step at a time, and it will be resolved.rsbhunter

Okay, so a couple of questions:

1. What is "spec"? I just spent some time at www.saami.org looking at drawings. SAAMI list MAX Cartridge and MIN Chamber drawings. There is no MAX Chamber dimensions listed. Also, being that SAAMI spec is voluntary manufacturing recommendations, is anyone really held to SAAMI spec? The fired casings do measure way over MAX Cartridge spec at the base and shoulder of the case but, that is before resizing.

2. How much more information is a chamber casting going to give me over the fired case? We all know that the brass casing retracts in size after firing. Otherwise it would not extract and eject. If SAAMI list no MAX Chamber spec, how can I point the finger at the manufacturer for being "out of spec".

What am I missing here?

Still in the cue and on hold with the manufacturer.