Fired Brass Can't be Re-Sized

[WildRose]

AR's are meant to be greased up sloppy wet to run well....especially during breakin period...of several 100 rounds

By design they will run dirty, gritty, wet, dusty, sandy, or even highly carbonized.

What they won't do is run dry. (without lube).

It's like the cylinders of an engine, no lube means friction starts to bind things up in a really big hurry.

 

[Shawn Carverelli]

By design they will run dirty, gritty, wet, dusty, sandy, or even highly carbonized.

What they won't do is run dry. (without lube).

It's like the cylinders of an engine, no lube means friction starts to bind things up in a really big hurry.

exa09

By design they will run dirty, gritty, wet, dusty, sandy, or even highly carbonized.

What they won't do is run dry. (without lube).

It's like the cylinders of an engine, no lube means friction starts to bind things up in a really big hurry.

exactly...I'm surprised LaRue put out a sloppy chambered gun . My AR's are premium barreled tight chambered bug hole shooting machines. I built all 3 myself. the .223 wears a krieger and it ran me around $1200 about 15 years ago. both ar10's are in the 4k area.
I dont they'd run filthy...the tolerances are too tight. Battle rifles are a completely different story, rolled in the muck and mud come out laying down a field of fire. Designed to shoot minute of commie..
.nevermind moa

 

[milboltnut]

You can do a chamber cast to see if its out of spec.

obviously the case dimensions told him that !

 

[ntsqd]

This horse has been flogged. The OP posted that Larue is unrepentant in their desire to be H&K with chambers that consume brass and render it unreloadable, and that their accuracy claims are extremely tightly controlled and not really reasonable in the real world. Arrogance about your product seems to be the second best way to sell it, with product that consistently performs under widely varying uses and conditions being a distant third best way to sell it. We all know the first best way.......

Larue won't be getting any of my money, either. But then I already felt like that from my single interaction with them where no cash changed hands.

 

[woolecox]

This horse has been flogged. The OP posted that Larue is unrepentant in their desire to be H&K with chambers that consume brass and render it unreloadable, and that their accuracy claims are extremely tightly controlled and not really reasonable in the real world. Arrogance about your product seems to be the second best way to sell it, with product that consistently performs under widely varying uses and conditions being a distant third best way to sell it. We all know the first best way.......

Larue won't be getting any of my money, either. But then I already felt like that from my single interaction with them where no cash changed hands.

I could not have said it better.

 

[WildRose]

I could not have said it better.

The rifle was sold with the knowledge it could only shoot new factory match ammo and could not be reloaded for.

I'm not seeing how LaRue had any responsibility or liability when the owner could not reload for it.

LRT has a very long standing reputation for great work, good customer service, and for being very straight shooters. Unless there has been a recent change, from the owner on down everyone working there is a veteran and former SOG Operator. They are all men of character.

 

[Dean2]

The rifle was sold with the knowledge it could only shoot new factory match ammo and could not be reloaded for.

I'm not seeing how LaRue had any responsibility or liability when the owner could not reload for it.

LRT has a very long standing reputation for great work, good customer service, and for being very straight shooters. Unless there has been a recent change, from the owner on down everyone working there is a veteran and former SOG Operator. They are all men of character.

Read the thread. You are dead wrong in your description of how the rifle was sold. The whole issue the OP had was that he was totally unaware that the cases are not reloadable, that the chamber did not meet Sammi spec, the accuracy claims are only met with their proprietary suppressor, which they don't make, and LaRue would take zero responsibility for their failure to clearly disclose those and quite a few other things. They may be men of character but this thread and their treatment of the OP certainly doesn't demonstrate that.

 

[WildRose]

Read the thread. You are dead wrong in your description of how the rifle was sold. The whole issue the OP had was that he was totally unaware that the cases are not reloadable, that the chamber did not meet Sammi spec, the accuracy claims are only met with their proprietary suppressor, which they don't make, and LaRue would take zero responsibility for their failure to clearly disclose those and quite a few other things. They may be men of character but this thread and their treatment of the OP certainly doesn't demonstrate that.

I'm looking at the chamber spec's and I don't see where the rifle is out of spec.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

Their guarantee is for factory ammo which seems to work just fine in the gun from what I can read.

The chamber is manufactured "loose" to ensure extraction under all conditions.

As for the brake, it's threaded for their proprietary muzzle devices so I see no issues there, when you buy a custom engineered piece of equipment you're marrying yourself to proprietary equipment unless told otherwise.

I can't see how LaRue is liable here as long as the rifle is built to spec and as advertised.

As for brass being from this rifle being unsafe to reload I'd need to see some source material supporting that but even if it is, the manufacturer is not responsible for producing reloadable brass once fired and ejected from the firearm.

I'm sorry if he's unhappy with the rifle but I can't see any legal avenue for holding LaRue liable as long as the rifle meets the advertised spec's nor is it reasonable to expect a full refund for a used rifle that meets the manufacturer's spec's.

While we may just assume that every rifle should produce reloadable brass once fired unless stated otherwise by the manufacturer, I don't see any way to hold them liable if we cannot reload expended brass. We can feel like it should be incumbent upon the manufacturer to state once fired brass is non reloadable if that is the case but there is no industry standard to that effect or anything in the law I've ever heard of establishing such a standard. As far as I can see they have met their obligations as a manufacturer and seller here even if we aren't happy with the outcome.

The only thing I can see here that might be a possibility is to try and negotiate an exchange for a tighter chambered barrel at cost or to sell the rifle for what he can get and start over.

 

[woolecox]

I'm looking at the chamber spec's and I don't see where the rifle is out of spec.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

Their guarantee is for factory ammo which seems to work just fine in the gun from what I can read.

The chamber is manufactured "loose" to ensure extraction under all conditions.

As for the brake, it's threaded for their proprietary muzzle devices so I see no issues there, when you buy a custom engineered piece of equipment you're marrying yourself to proprietary equipment unless told otherwise.

I can't see how LaRue is liable here as long as the rifle is built to spec and as advertised.

As for brass being from this rifle being unsafe to reload I'd need to see some sourceterial supporting that but even if it is, the manufacturer is not responsible for producing reloadable brass once fired and ejected from the firearm.

I'm sorry if he's unhappy with the rifle but I can't see any legal avenue for holding LaRue liable as long as the rifle meets the advertised spec's nor is it reasonable to expect a full refund for a used rifle that meets the manufacturer's spec's.

While we may just assume that every rifle should produce reloadable brass once fired unless stated otherwise by the manufacturer, I don't see any way to hold them liable if we cannot reload expended brass. We can feel like it should be incumbent upon the manufacturer to state once fired brass is non reloadable if that is the case but there is no industry standard to that effect or anything in the law I've ever heard of establishing such a standard. As far as I can see they have met their obligations as a manufacturer and seller here even if we aren't happy with the outcome.

The only thing I can see here that might be a possibility is to try and negotiate an exchange for a tighter chambered barrel at cost or to sell the rifle for what he can get and start over.

As Dean2 said, your response is evidence that you have not read the thread. It is okay to be a Larue supporter. They must have few to still be in business. The worker's patriotism is not in question here.

I have had literally dozens of rifles over the decades. I have never had one that would not function reasonably well with common military accepted gear such as AAC, Surefire, etc. My AAC MK-13 actually tightens up groups out of my 308 custom bolt gun. I shoot it on the rifle all the time. My Noveske M4 holds point of aim and still under one MOA with the SureFire SOCOM break and suppressor. And, so on.....

A lot of those who are not in the know, look down their noses at re-loaders but, in some sports, it is practically required. PRS and IDPA come to mind. I will include a tailored 5 shot group of the load I developed for my PRS competition rifle. No factory ammo can touch it.

Nowhere on Larue's web literature do they describe the utter proprietary nature of their firearms. Nor do they prohibit the use of reloaded ammo. Nowhere, at least not when I bought this rifle. We all know that AR10's are not exactly "mil spec" but, when a broken firing pin retaining pin (cotter pin) keeps your rifle dysfunctional for 2 over two months, there is a problem in my book.

When it takes over two hours on hold on any given day to talk to their one and only customer service rep and, for him just to tell you that there are NO parts of any kind available, That is a problem. This was all before America melted down over COVID.

Also, as I said earlier, Larue does not stand by their products. They refused to take the rifle back or exchange it. Believe me, I tried. You enjoy your rifles. I will continue to support KAC, Noveske, LMT, FN, Colt, and others that just work. I just picked up a FN SCAR 20S in 7.62 a couple of weeks ago. Still waiting on a BGC to complete a LMT MWS build. These rifles are "Multi Cal" and have factory and custom aftermarket barrels that are user interchangeable.

V/R
Wooly

 

[59FLH]

OP:
I just got a factory new AR10 chambered in 7.62 NATO (308Win)........ All reloads and factory ammo functioned flawlessly except the factory Fed GMM. ........The GMM did function flawlessly with the gun suppressed but the groups were terrible. All other groups were near or under 1 MOA for 5 shots. The best was the 178ELD-X that grouped .62"

I don't understand the bitch, is it because the chamber is fluted and the brass cant be reloaded?

 

[WildRose]

As Dean2 said, your response is evidence that you have not read the thread. It is okay to be a Larue supporter. They must have few to still be in business. The worker's patriotism is not in question here.

I have had literally dozens of rifles over the decades. I have never had one that would not function reasonably well with common military accepted gear such as AAC, Surefire, etc. My AAC MK-13 actually tightens up groups out of my 308 custom bolt gun. I shoot it on the rifle all the time. My Noveske M4 holds point of aim and still under one MOA with the SureFire SOCOM break and suppressor. And, so on.....

A lot of those who are not in the know, look down their noses at re-loaders but, in some sports, it is practically required. PRS and IDPA come to mind. I will include a tailored 5 shot group of the load I developed for my PRS competition rifle. No factory ammo can touch it.

Nowhere on Larue's web literature do they describe the utter proprietary nature of their firearms. Nor do they prohibit the use of reloaded ammo. Nowhere, at least not when I bought this rifle. We all know that AR10's are not exactly "mil spec" but, when a broken firing pin retaining pin (cotter pin) keeps your rifle dysfunctional for 2 over two months, there is a problem in my book.

When it takes over two hours on hold on any given day to talk to their one and only customer service rep and, for him just to tell you that there are NO parts of any kind available, That is a problem. This was all before America melted down over COVID.

Also, as I said earlier, Larue does not stand by their products. They refused to take the rifle back or exchange it. Believe me, I tried. You enjoy your rifles. I will continue to support KAC, Noveske, LMT, FN, Colt, and others that just work. I just picked up a FN SCAR 20S in 7.62 a couple of weeks ago. Still waiting on a BGC to complete a LMT MWS build. These rifles are "Multi Cal" and have factory and custom aftermarket barrels that are user interchangeable.

V/R
Wooly

I read the thread, I was not clear on some points. I'm sorry you're not happy with your rifle but I can't see where they would be in any way obligated to take it back.

It functions as advertised and you made the choice not to use one of their proprietary muzzle devices.

I've never had an issue with their customer service nor have I heard of any complaints other than yours so yes, it leaves me with questions.

Personally if I were buying a rifle with a proprietary chamber designed specifically to ensure ejection under any conditions I would certainly get a good explanation of what to expect from it including asking about the ability to reload for it.

I reload for all of my rifles so that's something I always consider when making a purchase.

 

[WildRose]

Nowhere on Larue's web literature do they describe the utter proprietary nature of their firearms. Nor do they prohibit the use of reloaded ammo. Nowhere, at least not when I bought this rifle. We all know that AR10's are not exactly "mil spec" but, when a broken firing pin retaining pin (cotter pin) keeps your rifle dysfunctional for 2 over two months, there is a problem in my book.

Odd when I look up the page describing the XTRAXN Chamber I see the word proprietary multiple times.

XTRAXN™ Technology from LaRue Tactical - LaRue Tactical

www.larue.com

According to your own OP the gun functioned just fine with all the ammo you ran through it including reloads with the exception of one brand of ammo.

I just got a factory new AR10 chambered in 7.62 NATO (308Win)........ All reloads and factory ammo functioned flawlessly except the factory Fed GMM. ........The GMM did function flawlessly with the gun suppressed but the groups were terrible. All other groups were near or under 1 MOA for 5 shots. The best was the 178ELD-X that grouped .62"

Now I get that you're unhappy, I remain however unconvinced that the brass cannot be reloaded because I can't find anything resource wise that says expansion of .010 weakens a case sufficiently as to render it unsafe to load. I was hoping someone could cite a source on that but haven't seen it yet.

The issue here seems to be your unreasonable demand that they replace or refund your money for a rifle that functions as designed and as advertised. I honestly don't know of anyone in the business who would do that.

 

[greenejc]

I'm looking at the chamber spec's and I don't see where the rifle is out of spec.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

Their guarantee is for factory ammo which seems to work just fine in the gun from what I can read.

The chamber is manufactured "loose" to ensure extraction under all conditions.

As for the brake, it's threaded for their proprietary muzzle devices so I see no issues there, when you buy a custom engineered piece of equipment you're marrying yourself to proprietary equipment unless told otherwise.

I can't see how LaRue is liable here as long as the rifle is built to spec and as advertised.

As for brass being from this rifle being unsafe to reload I'd need to see some source material supporting that but even if it is, the manufacturer is not responsible for producing reloadable brass once fired and ejected from the firearm.

I'm sorry if he's unhappy with the rifle but I can't see any legal avenue for holding LaRue liable as long as the rifle meets the advertised spec's nor is it reasonable to expect a full refund for a used rifle that meets the manufacturer's spec's.

While we may just assume that every rifle should produce reloadable brass once fired unless stated otherwise by the manufacturer, I don't see any way to hold them liable if we cannot reload expended brass. We can feel like it should be incumbent upon the manufacturer to state once fired brass is non reloadable if that is the case but there is no industry standard to that effect or anything in the law I've ever heard of establishing such a standard. As far as I can see they have met their obligations as a manufacturer and seller here even if we aren't happy with the outcome.

The only thing I can see here that might be a possibility is to try and negotiate an exchange for a tighter chambered barrel at cost or to sell the rifle for what he can get and start over.

All true, unfortunately. I shoot an H&K 91 with a brass deflector on it, and I do reload the mil spec brass for it. I have to size them twice to do so, but they will function and are accurate in my M700. too if I size the brass and give it a half turn and size it again. You can still see the flutes, but it works.

 

[WildRose]

All true, unfortunately. I shoot an H&K 91 with a brass deflector on it, and I do reload the mil spec brass for it. I have to size them twice to do so, but they will function and are accurate in my M700. too if I size the brass and give it a half turn and size it again. You can still see the flutes, but it works.

I suspected as much. I run some 300 Rum loads pretty hot and to avoid ever having a stuck case when I hit serious resistance I back off and turn them a half to 1/4 turn and repeat, same with my 6.5LRM. I've not yet had to go to a body die with any of them but who knows, ya never know.