Gary kittelson
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12" at 200 yards may be caused too much recoil ( flinch jerk) try same test with a less manly caliber
Field Practice to Make Better Hunting Shots
- Thread starter Golovkin
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jbur13
Well-Known Member
I had a 338 win mag once and off a sandbag, it would shoot consistent 1" groups. As soon as I went to a standing position, I was always a foot high point of impact. Even shooting from sticks.
I lengthened the pull from the factory 13.5" to 14" and it corrected my problem. My problem is I have really long arms and long neck even though I'm not a tall person. Once I got my head away from the scope and into a natural position I was right on the money. Maybe check fitment?
I lengthened the pull from the factory 13.5" to 14" and it corrected my problem. My problem is I have really long arms and long neck even though I'm not a tall person. Once I got my head away from the scope and into a natural position I was right on the money. Maybe check fitment?
That's a 6MOA variance....WOW!!! There is something major going on there. The major portion has got to be easy to spot. Have you had competent shooter friends watch your technique? Have you video recorded your technique? There are probably numerous contributing factors. Some may be equipment; others technique. Have you truly successfully harnessed that 338RUM? Parallax and eye/scope alignment change with different positions. Building positions for accuracy is critical. Many shooters shoot with body position off to the side of the longitudinal axis of the rifle bore....like the little plastic "green army man" we all had as kids. This causes the recoil to be vectored to the side...path of least resistance....resulting in poor accuracy and repeatability. This happens especially in prone and off a bench. Variations in positioning the rifle stock securely and consistently into the pocket of your shoulder also contributes to inaccuracy. Very notable between prone and bench. Practice getting your body in line with bore axis to consistently absorb recoil. Search the PRS web sites (ie Precision Rifle Blog.com, etc. ) for videos and articles on how to build positional shooting techniques. Also, video record your shooting to look for clues to the inconsistently...like a flinch with the bigger calibers.
Greyfox is correct on in his assessment . I have been shooting from standing , kneeling , seated and prone at 8", 6" and "4 plates for awhile know. No shooting aid other than a shooting sling on my Rem 700. Each range session is 5 single round from each position, the larger plate for standing and the smallest plate from seated. No stress involved. Once I was able to hit each plate 4 times of 5 I increased the distance to 150 and repeated the process.
As Greyfox mentioned understanding of basic fundamentals is were your training should start. I got away from the bench years ago and have now incorporated a physical workout to elevate my heart rate before each shot. At 60 years old I need to keep working. Good luck
As Greyfox mentioned understanding of basic fundamentals is were your training should start. I got away from the bench years ago and have now incorporated a physical workout to elevate my heart rate before each shot. At 60 years old I need to keep working. Good luck
I went to a Shooting class with Non Typical Outfitters a couple of years ago. I knew I wasn't great, found out I wasn't even good. Rob showed us several different ways to set up for a shot. Off sticks, backpacks, rocks, tree limbs, fence posts basically anything available. I have been practicing a lot on hogs and the occasional deer. Last year I dropped an elk at 536yds down in a canyon. I was laying down flat with the rifle hanging over an edge with the strap wrapped around my wrist. It's a shot I never would have attempted without Robs tutelage. I practice positional shooting like this. I have two dice. One is colored, indicating the target. ( I have several set up ) the other is numbers indicating position. ( 1 is prone, 2 is freehand, etc ) so I roll the dice and it decides the shot. But I have a 400 yd range in my yard so that makes practicing easy for me.
J Doss
Active Member
You are definitely on the right track.
Another suggestion is to try shouldering your rifle before getting into shooting position. Part of the diff you are seeing shooting off different platforms from the bench is in shouldering your weapon. As you change shouldering positions it changes head position on the weapon thus changing eye to scope position. Try looking through your scope on target, then slightly shift your head left, right, up, down. What does your target centering do with each shift? It doesn't take much of a change in head positioning to make inches or feet of difference at range.
This has helped me more with hunting shot placement consistency than anything except practice, practice, practice.
Note: I haven't tried this with FFP scopes. They may take some of the shift out. Just a thought?
Keep it up!
Saracen
Well-Known Member
I wish more people would take this approach, not only for the practice, but everyone seems to shoot off of bipods nowadays, but why?
When I'm out hunting, it's rare that I ever shoot prone, and if I do, I shoot off of a backpack, or free hand. No ' loading' or `hopping' of the bipod to be concerned about ; in fact I sold all of my bipods, as I shoot more accurately off of a pack, and it's one less piece of crap to carry around.
30calyooper
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you're on the right track. So, my view of the basics - here goes:
- Practicing from the bench or shall we say at least a solid rest (hood of my pickup is pretty solid!) allows the shooter to work on fundamentals such as control of breathing and trigger practice (yep, no two launchers are exactly the same due to grip, LOP, all that jazz) plus proper sighting and even timing for wind drift. Like I said, fundamentals. And for testing loads and the primary part of sighting in a scope - well, to me it's the most practical way to test for velocity and accuracy, and get the scope set so you can move on to actual field practice and confirming your load's flight path over various distances. To sum it up, this sort of practice is important to stay sharp and get your rig set up.
- Practice from field shooting positions, AKA hunting positions: this is where the rubber meets the road. Here you'll learn to adjust your body positioning and/or sighting as needed to actually git 'er dun when the stars align and your critter shows up. In many ways this form of practice is more important, but you won't get much out of it until you've got the fundamentals working properly. When you know you're doing everything else right, it's easy to figure out whether or not you need to make adjustments to your stance etc. in order to keep things working effectively.
In an earlier post one of the folks mentioned shooting an 8" group offhand at 100 yds with the 243. Doesn't sound impressive when you're thinking 1/2 moa groups, but it's really not that bad! Here's two very important questions -
#1, how far are you really willing to take an offhand shot? If you can do that 8" group consistently and it's a close range situation - like say you jumped a buck so shoot now or watch him disappear - good chance that 8" group at 100 is probably going to be followed by field dressing and dragging. Not recommending anyone take a shot with poor odds of killing the critter, but again if you have practiced offhand enough to be confident AND the killing shot is there, why not? I've filled lots of antlerless deer tags in the north woods this way, where the shots are often 100 yards or less.
#2 - NOW - suppose the distance is 200 or more - well, to be honest I won't shoot offhand that far if I can drop to a supported position and increase my stability. Won't say I haven't tried it and even gotten lucky a time or two, but I also know my limits - if I have to shoot that fast and that far, I'm taking undesirable chances. I can live with the fact that my ability is limited a lot easier than I could live with myself if I start exhibiting poor hunter's ethics.
SO - whenever time permits, get as much support as you can. Generally speaking the farther your shot has to go, the more time you will have to set for it whether that means kneeling, sitting or prone, with a bipod or over your pack, or a stump, etc. Or a tree to lean against sideways if one is available. In the real world, I will use anything I can to make myself steadier for that shot - beats missing or worse, wounding and losing a game animal because I did not do my best.
Practice from every position that makes sense for the hunt you are going on! Keep it real - if you are hunting pronghorn, you probably won't get a lot of good offhand shooting opportunities, and may not have trees to lean against...but a tall bipod might be worth its weight in gold. And a fencepost is a whole lot steadier than offhand in the wind!
Practice as much and as many ways as you can afford to - we're all reading this because we like shooting our rifles, and the time spent practicing is never wasted!
PNWdude67
Well-Known Member
We have steel set up for practice and it's really fun. We also shoot riflemans team challenge and national rifle league matche. The 338 RUM has significant recoil to be managed and the enjoyment of shooting may diminish rapidly. Consider getting a light caliber "trainer" for practice and transfer the fundamentals to your high caliber hunter. Good shooting.
Hal The Slayer
Well-Known Member
Enjoyed your letter ,I have always been the type not to waste ammo or a shot,used the reasoning in my life aim small miss small ,seems to work for me.Just a thought
Canhunter35
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Reading the posts it sure sounds like a recoil management issue. Put a muzzle brake on and it should drop ur poi shifts from 12" to 3-4" then you need to work on your fundamentals.
Have u tried grabbing the tripod with ur off hand and applying pressure through the rifle to ur shoulder to mimic preloading the bipod?
Have u tried grabbing the tripod with ur off hand and applying pressure through the rifle to ur shoulder to mimic preloading the bipod?
Golovkin
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chilli42
Well-Known Member
That is a great idea. Shooting when you are tired and/or a bit winded is a great way to replicate field shooting. We spend most of our hunting time climbing mountain ridges and it really gets the blood pumping. Shooting when the muscles are stressed and the heart pounding is another level of difficult .... but real world depending on where you hunt.
D Gold
Member
Good call, particularly if the placement is consistent.
