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FFP or SFP
- Thread starter KPB71
- Start date
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Keep your day job!
There's only one way to find out.
As you should!
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
You don't have enough self control to know what you would do?
I know exactly what to do and don't need your validation?
Rich Coyle
Well-Known Member
Sorry to disrupt your thread.
I am heartily sorry for my attempt to contribute towards a little levity.
You've been provided valuable recommendations but you have the ultimate decision to make.
Good luck and happy safe shooting/hunting. Cheers!
At some apparent risk ( strapping on body armor as I type....) I am going to wade into his, partially with questions - and partially with observations.
Questions:
1. Of those that are convinced that FFP has no valid place in LRH...How many have really ever tried hunting with one?
2. Is it not true that by raising or lowering the magnification on FFP scopes will not change the POI of your shot...whereas - if you are shooting with a SFP scope - the reticle is only accurate at the magnification setting when you sited it in....?
3. What power do you leave your scope on - when hunting in general? And...WHAT kind of hunting distances are you anticipating by that setting?
Observations:
1. Minds are like parachutes.
2. Parachutes only work if packed properly.
3. If you cannot re-pack your 'chute ( i.e. discuss respectfully, and maybe learn something new )- it may be that you have forgotten that someone else had to teach you - or do it for/with you the first time....yesterday's experts are tomorrows has-beens if they stop learning.
4. Try and be thankful and a bit humble in the understanding you ain't permanent. Teach , share - and continue to learn....by unpacking that chute occasionally - lest it get moldy and stuck together in a dangerous manner:roll eyes: ( I suppose that could mean one gets mentally constipated? )
Questions:
1. Of those that are convinced that FFP has no valid place in LRH...How many have really ever tried hunting with one?
2. Is it not true that by raising or lowering the magnification on FFP scopes will not change the POI of your shot...whereas - if you are shooting with a SFP scope - the reticle is only accurate at the magnification setting when you sited it in....?
3. What power do you leave your scope on - when hunting in general? And...WHAT kind of hunting distances are you anticipating by that setting?
Observations:
1. Minds are like parachutes.
2. Parachutes only work if packed properly.
3. If you cannot re-pack your 'chute ( i.e. discuss respectfully, and maybe learn something new
)- it may be that you have forgotten that someone else had to teach you - or do it for/with you the first time....yesterday's experts are tomorrows has-beens if they stop learning.4. Try and be thankful and a bit humble in the understanding you ain't permanent. Teach , share - and continue to learn....by unpacking that chute occasionally - lest it get moldy and stuck together in a dangerous manner:roll eyes: ( I suppose that could mean one gets mentally constipated?
)engineer40
Well-Known Member
1. I think plenty of people are using FFP scopes for long range hunting on full sized animals. The original question was in regards to varmint hunting. FFP scopes are less common for long range varmint hunting because the reticle gets thick at higher powers and can actually cover the small varmints. Although Feenix mentioned a FFP scope that was for varmint hunting. I would be interested in looking at the reticle.
2. Your POI should not change with magnification changes with either kind of scope. Are you talking about parallax?
There are benefits to both FFP and SFP scopes. You can learn to use either successfully.
If youre using a laser rangefinder and dialing elevation and wind, you dont need any subtensions on a reticle. Standard cross hair will do. Then the FFP/SFP conversation becomes meaningless.
Many guys hold off for wind instead of dialing their turrets. If those guys want to be able to do that at any magnification, then they will need a FFP scope.
A bigger consideration is to get a scope that has matching reticle and turrets. Either Mil/Mil or Moa/Moa. Mil/Mil is my choice; others may disagree.
Hope this helps.
2. Your POI should not change with magnification changes with either kind of scope. Are you talking about parallax?
There are benefits to both FFP and SFP scopes. You can learn to use either successfully.
If youre using a laser rangefinder and dialing elevation and wind, you dont need any subtensions on a reticle. Standard cross hair will do. Then the FFP/SFP conversation becomes meaningless.
Many guys hold off for wind instead of dialing their turrets. If those guys want to be able to do that at any magnification, then they will need a FFP scope.
A bigger consideration is to get a scope that has matching reticle and turrets. Either Mil/Mil or Moa/Moa. Mil/Mil is my choice; others may disagree.
Hope this helps.
Thank you! I appreciate you input and observations.
I asked about POI because with all of my SFP scopes with BDC reticles for example - - they are ONLY accurate - according to everything I have read - when dialed into their max magnification.
And, while I have always used SFP in the past, I recently used a FFP scope - and was convinced of the benefits for my needs of larger game or smaller game depending on the reticle section ( thickness of the lines. Illumination or none, etc...)
But I am a little confused by this: "If youre using a laser rangefinder and dialing elevation and wind, you dont need any subtensions on a reticle. Standard cross hair will do. Then the FFP/SFP conversation becomes meaningless. "
I think that depends on what the circumstances are. If you have a deer let's say = at 300 yards, and you only have a thin crosshair...You have to be very comfortable with that round, and the reticle. ( And you should be, or not be hunting...) But - with the FFP - it seems that you should be able to remove the "Kentucky Windage AND Elevation" guestimate and replace that with a more measurable, and knowing firing solution using the reticle type seen in a growing number of scopes ( EBR- 2C in Vortex...others have similar offerings) because there are marks in either mil, or MOA that one can reference quickly. And - without major math.
I agree with you on the "head scratcher of mis-matched turret/reticle combos..I prefer prefer base 10 solution of mil/mil too.
I asked about POI because with all of my SFP scopes with BDC reticles for example - - they are ONLY accurate - according to everything I have read - when dialed into their max magnification.
And, while I have always used SFP in the past, I recently used a FFP scope - and was convinced of the benefits for my needs of larger game or smaller game depending on the reticle section ( thickness of the lines. Illumination or none, etc...)
But I am a little confused by this: "If youre using a laser rangefinder and dialing elevation and wind, you dont need any subtensions on a reticle. Standard cross hair will do. Then the FFP/SFP conversation becomes meaningless. "
I think that depends on what the circumstances are. If you have a deer let's say = at 300 yards, and you only have a thin crosshair...You have to be very comfortable with that round, and the reticle. ( And you should be, or not be hunting...) But - with the FFP - it seems that you should be able to remove the "Kentucky Windage AND Elevation" guestimate and replace that with a more measurable, and knowing firing solution using the reticle type seen in a growing number of scopes ( EBR- 2C in Vortex...others have similar offerings) because there are marks in either mil, or MOA that one can reference quickly. And - without major math.
I agree with you on the "head scratcher of mis-matched turret/reticle combos..I prefer prefer base 10 solution of mil/mil too.
"If youre using a laser rangefinder and dialing elevation and wind, you dont need any subtensions on a reticle. Standard cross hair will do. Then the FFP/SFP conversation becomes meaningless. "
I agree to some extent. Recently I was in the market for a Hunting scope and was convinced FFP was the way to go so I bought one.
After using it I am convinced FFP is NOT for me and my hunting style.
The biggest reason why I do not like the FFP is how small the reticle is at low magnification/how big it is at long range.
I felt in order for me to feel comfortable seeing the reticle I felt I needed 5X magnification which in turn limited my field of view to much.
Also FFP scopes are big and heavy.
I use a range finder and find my new VX6 with windplex firedot ZL dial is perfect for Me.
I agree to some extent. Recently I was in the market for a Hunting scope and was convinced FFP was the way to go so I bought one.
After using it I am convinced FFP is NOT for me and my hunting style.
The biggest reason why I do not like the FFP is how small the reticle is at low magnification/how big it is at long range.
I felt in order for me to feel comfortable seeing the reticle I felt I needed 5X magnification which in turn limited my field of view to much.
Also FFP scopes are big and heavy.
I use a range finder and find my new VX6 with windplex firedot ZL dial is perfect for Me.
Interesting ....
Perhaps the issue of not understanding the need for different reticles in SFP vs FFP is connected here.....?
And - the reticles that I am attracted to such as the afore mentioned EBR 2C ( or 2B - difference is MOA or MIL) allow you to use the reticle as a calculated "holdover" - rather than guesstimate or Ky windage.
Experience with these newer reticles is different than what I have always used in the past, but...I am hoping that there will be added benefit in utilizing a "tactical" style reticle for LRH.
They are really an evolved B&C in the way I plan on using them and look at them. FFP...dial it up or down - no change in accuracy of the point of aim, if I understand correctly.
And - I have been watching the size weights coming down - or at least there are more and more scopes available....Currently I am looking at the Meopta 3-12 x 56. I think it is approx. 21 oz.
Perhaps the issue of not understanding the need for different reticles in SFP vs FFP is connected here.....?
And - the reticles that I am attracted to such as the afore mentioned EBR 2C ( or 2B - difference is MOA or MIL) allow you to use the reticle as a calculated "holdover" - rather than guesstimate or Ky windage.
Experience with these newer reticles is different than what I have always used in the past, but...I am hoping that there will be added benefit in utilizing a "tactical" style reticle for LRH.
They are really an evolved B&C in the way I plan on using them and look at them. FFP...dial it up or down - no change in accuracy of the point of aim, if I understand correctly.
And - I have been watching the size weights coming down - or at least there are more and more scopes available....Currently I am looking at the Meopta 3-12 x 56. I think it is approx. 21 oz.
engineer40
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I wasn't trying to say that everyone only needs a standard cross hair reticle. (The majority of my scopes have now been migrated over to Mil/Mil reticles.) I was just trying to describe that you can accomplish the same result without any subtensions on a reticle.
engineer40
Well-Known Member
I agree with your opinion. The 2 times I used a couple friends FFP scopes I found the same frustrations you described, so I talked myself out of ever buying one. At the same time, I would also agree with the people who claim the benefits they like about their FFP scopes. Both FFP and SFP have benefits.
Although I've been lusting over a spotting scope with a Mil reticle that is FFP. That would be the bee's knees. And to me, that would make more sense for me to own.
One other thing I found is the SCR reticle on my Steiner T5Xi isn't overly busy but it did tend to be a bit busy looking thru in a hunting situation and unless you can spot your shots in a long range situation using it for quick follow up shots is almost impossible for me with my 338 lapua . another reason why I feel I don't need a FFP at known ranges I can dial my SFP just fine
The "known ranges"....that is a fact. None of the reticles are meaningful without the distance info.
There are some reticles I have seen that have mil/moa marks above the horizontal/horizon line. These are stated to be used to range the game. Then, using the lines below the vertical - the holdover is known....
Does that make sense?
There are some reticles I have seen that have mil/moa marks above the horizontal/horizon line. These are stated to be used to range the game. Then, using the lines below the vertical - the holdover is known....
Does that make sense?
