Fast Barrels ? ? ?

[STEEL SLINGER]

It is like shopping for a wife, you might have to try more than one before you find one you REALLY like!

AMEN Brother! ! ! LOL

 

[L.Sherm]

The simple fact is that a looser bore will have higher velocity than a tighter bore with the SAME load.
A rougher bore, within reason, will also be slower than a smoother bore.

This is why SAAMI test barrels are ALL at minimum sizes, both groove/bore and chamber dimensions.
This is why it is often not doable to get the same velocity in a factory barrel with the SAME load/components as what's in a loading manual.
This also why some barrels run faster due to looser tolerances and vice versa.

Cheers.

So 6mm Brux barrels are slow.

 

[FEENIX]

Some manufactures of barrels are faster than others is true. Lapping, bore and groove demenisions play a big part. I have some 17 and 20 cal Green Mountain barrels on some of my varment calibers and they are slower because of the bore dimensions are bigger although they shoot .5 m.o.a.

IBS Hunter Champion Al Nyhus and others have had great success with Lilja 3-groove barrels. Al believes the 3-groove design cleans up more quickly and yields a bit more velocity. Famed gunsmith and wildcatter P.O. Ackley believed that, all things considered, a properly-made 3-groove barrel is optimal for most common calibers. Ackley believed 3-groove profiles can deliver higher velocities with less fouling and no significant reduction in accuracy. (SOURCE: http://www.6mmbr.com/barrelfaq.html)

I am on my second Lilja 3-groove barrel thus far and very pleased with it.

 

[bigngreen]

Lilja has taken a major dump the last few years, it's like they forgot how to heat treat!!
Rock Creeks don't speed up after shooting in, Bartlien and Kriegers don't really settle in for a hundred rounds. Broughton generally will run fast. Harts run normal and consistent.
There are other factors in running fast than just a barrel, the barrel maybe a lesser factor even.

 

[brentc]

The simple fact is that a looser bore will have higher velocity than a tighter bore with the SAME load.

Just a little backwards. Tighter bores create increased pressure, thereby causing higher muzzle velocity than loose bores when using the same load. Loose barrels will require larger powder charges to reach equivalent pressure.

 

[joep17]

All of the comments have been spot on except for my lame attempt of humour that at least one guy caught. Thanks.

I have never made a barrel but 20 plus years ago spent an afternoon with Ron Smith of Torrington as he did a gain twist barrel on his cut rifling rig he built. A true gentleman.

He told me something I will never forget. He told me that whether button or cut, every time you make a barrel the button or cutter is worn a tiny bit. Each barrel will be minutely different.

Don't know how many barrels anyone makes before they change tools but one more variable. Each time you use the same reamer, it will have a minute amount of wear.

That is why we all love experimenting.

Best of luck to all who try to distill this "art" to a single answer.

And again, my last Linja is 6 years old but I still like the sound of the name..

 

[martinakl]

IBS Hunter Champion Al Nyhus and others have had great success with Lilja 3-groove barrels. Al believes the 3-groove design cleans up more quickly and yields a bit more velocity. Famed gunsmith and wildcatter P.O. Ackley believed that, all things considered, a properly-made 3-groove barrel is optimal for most common calibers. Ackley believed 3-groove profiles can deliver higher velocities with less fouling and no significant reduction in accuracy. (SOURCE: http://www.6mmbr.com/barrelfaq.html)

I am on my second Lilja 3-groove barrel thus far and very pleased with it.

I researched this topic for way too long. My findings were the same as above. 3 groove seems to be deliver a velocity edge.

 

[joep17]

Makes sense from an engineering point of view.

I remember the Remington 5R barrels that worked better than most factory of the time.

We just keep experimenting in our hobby of passion.

What a great forum to offer up experiences instead of just 1 time opinions as so many other forums have.

Great posts.

 

[1Moose]

I'm working on loads for my 260 Rem, and it's interesting to me that velocities are with a few fps of book for Berger's load data (with 140 VLDH), but my actual velocities are over 100 fps faster than book for 143 ELD-X (in 2 different powders). Suppose it could be that it's simply how the Hornady bullets perform in my barrel vs. their test barrel, though there's a part of me that also wonders if Hornady isn't fully interested in showing full velocities for the 260 Rem when they have their own favorite (Creedmoor) cartridge. In my 300 WM, the Berger listed velocities are also spot on. Both of my rifles are same length as the test rifles, though I am in all cases loading COAL longer than book. Regardless, it seems that my barrel is "fast" with Hornady bullets but spot on book with Berger.

 

[joep17]

Hi 1moose!
I should change my name to 36 moose?

I look back to my 1973 Lyman number I think #45? Manual. Back in the day, the companies were less concerned about liability. Loads often were hot.

Today companies putting out #10 plus editions are a bit milder.

Berger manuals are absolutely fabulous and have not caught up with the litigations of guys picking the max load and starting to work up from there. Most of their customers are experienced reloaders and pay attention. I shoot both Berger and Lapua competitively and load them to stay supersonic at 1000 yards to get min spread.

Don't hotrod your loads. Do a ladder test for harmonics and then experiment with seating depths for group size.

And again, you could have the magic combo that hit the sweet spot. 100 fps faster and a miss is worse than 100 fps slower that hits the same spot every time.

If you need more speed, get a 6.5-284 or a caliber to fit your velocity range

I like to have a good shooting rifle in any caliber as long as it shoots well.

If I need more, just pick the next size up to meet my wishes. Note I say wishes. A 270, a 30-06, or 7 Rem Mag will do 99% of what we really need.

Why do I load for a "lot" (read 43) of calibers? Becuase all of us love to experiment.

AND a 260 is a sweet cartridge. You cannot go wrong with it. Unless you are going after really big stuff with a correct hunting bullet, it will do anything you need. I am down to 2 of them.

If you have a great shooting rifle you can confidently hunt with it, go get em. I have seen 6 moose and 4 elk drop to them with a correct bullet. Barnes TSX or TTSX and second choice a Partition. If you shoot a deer with a Berger, great but do not take on a bigger animal.

Sorry to get off track on a thread on rifle barrel velocities. Back to the point for the rest of you.

 

[1Moose]

Hi 1moose!
I should change my name to 36 moose?

I look back to my 1973 Lyman number I think #45? Manual. Back in the day, the companies were less concerned about liability. Loads often were hot.

Today companies putting out #10 plus editions are a bit milder.

Berger manuals are absolutely fabulous and have not caught up with the litigations of guys picking the max load and starting to work up from there. Most of their customers are experienced reloaders and pay attention. I shoot both Berger and Lapua competitively and load them to stay supersonic at 1000 yards to get min spread.

Don't hotrod your loads. Do a ladder test for harmonics and then experiment with seating depths for group size.

And again, you could have the magic combo that hit the sweet spot. 100 fps faster and a miss is worse than 100 fps slower that hits the same spot every time.

If you need more speed, get a 6.5-284 or a caliber to fit your velocity range

I like to have a good shooting rifle in any caliber as long as it shoots well.

If I need more, just pick the next size up to meet my wishes. Note I say wishes. A 270, a 30-06, or 7 Rem Mag will do 99% of what we really need.

Why do I load for a "lot" (read 43) of calibers? Becuase all of us love to experiment.

AND a 260 is a sweet cartridge. You cannot go wrong with it. Unless you are going after really big stuff with a correct hunting bullet, it will do anything you need. I am down to 2 of them.

If you have a great shooting rifle you can confidently hunt with it, go get em. I have seen 6 moose and 4 elk drop to them with a correct bullet. Barnes TSX or TTSX and second choice a Partition. If you shoot a deer with a Berger, great but do not take on a bigger animal.

Sorry to get off track on a thread on rifle barrel velocities. Back to the point for the rest of you.

Thanks for the post joep17. I'm excited about the rifle and still looking for that perfect load. I'm seeing some loads with 4-5 shot groups just under 1 inch at 200 yards but want to do better. Regarding the 140VLDH, my objective is for a deer / pronghorn load. I want my son to be able to hunt with this rifle in 3 years when he's old enough, and pronghorn will be a great entry point for him. He comes with me already to participate. It's possible he'd at some point come on a rifle elk hunt with me later on (and before he's ready for anything with more recoil) in which case I'd definitely want to work up a load as you suggest with a much tougher bullet (and keep the distances down). Maybe once I get a favorite load with the 140 VLDH or 143 ELD-X I'll start to work on that because it'll give me something to obsess over. Interestingly, with the Hornady posted velocities, I'm over velocity even from mid loads on up. Berger velocities are spot on along the full spectrum of powder charges.

 

[joep17]

You are a lucky man on two fronts!
Firstly getting to teach your son to hunt will be the best thing you will remember 20 years from now.

Secondly is that you have a great load that shoots well.

Again, a 260 Rem is an awesome cartridge. Once your son shoots his first animal, please PM me with a picture.

If every father taught his son how to shoot and hunt, how whole sport gets better.

Keep up the great work and tradition.