Explain This Please

[bozoben]

What is the muzzle velocity of you berger eh?

2730

 

[Northkill]

I see the bullet clearly hitting the top of the animal. White fur, animal dropping, and vapor trail all confirm to me and it is pretty easy to see.

I also see confirmation bias as OP is agreeing with posts that point to an impact near the tan/white fur line. You asked for help, in my mind you should be more open to what other people are telling you.

Either way, it hit no man's land or high on the back, and both are from poor shot placement, so the takeaway is the same either way.

I'm thinking the confirmation bias cuts both ways. Everyone seems so sure of themselves. I'm willing to accept the fact that the OP has a better video than we do and is certain of impact location. He says he initially thought it was a miss, but learned later upon review of video that there was impact. We can't prove anything conclusively without a post mortem. I've also had animals react opposite from what you'd think to shot location, so that in itself is not conclusive evidence. What you think you see from a distance in terms of where the hair is flying from, is rather subjective to all sorts of things. Inexplicable things happen in the field. Not a perfect world. Meplat/tip issue? Happens sometimes on those projos if not cleaned/drilled. If impact was indeed where OP suggests, while it's far from ideal location, it would appear to be an expansion issue. Low restriction media combined with low velocity can make problems. Oh, gotta get "Hammers" in here somewhere. Try one of them next time.

As to the criticism to the shooter's abilities, I think we should leave that out of this discussion. I'll wager most of us have done bad hits on stuff a lot closer than that. Just because I do a bad hit at 100 yds doesn't mean I'm gonna restrict myself to 50 yds next time. So many variables and unknowns here. We are always learning, and many times by our mistakes/miscalculations. No sense diminishing ourselves or this thread by negative insinuations on assumptions. The Golden Rule applies all around.

 

[Raudy707]

If he hit liver it would be dead. They bleed out internally after a few hours. I've been on that rodeo a number of times in archery and rifle hits. Belly full of blood and a slow death. Sure as hell wouldn't be pushing does the following day. Same for a gut shot. He'd be laid up in the sage somewhere as buzzard bait. The only explanation if he is absolutely positive the hit was where he believes it to be is...the bullet didn't function at all. It missed kidneys, liver, gut all while dropping at a nose dive angle and had to travel in a midair turn to the right, followed by a squiggly one to the left—in order to rip through Kennedy's neck, then into Connally's ribs and wrist then kept going through a tennis ball area that has nothing in it leaving the antelope no worse for wear. That is one hell of a shot!

 

[PNWdude67]

I am very open to what other have to say, that is why I posted here after all.
To be perfectly honest, and maybe I should have been more clear in the original post, but I am not looking for confirmation on where the bullet impacted, I know with 100% confidence where it hit. I am looking for explanations as to why the antelope did not perish immediately. More of a "how did that goat survive" anatomy question, or maybe it was just a poor point of aim on my part.

Imo based on some extensive experience viewing video and live trace in the field at the range you engaged the target, the bullet did not hit where you believe it hit. The most telling evidence is the hair flying up and back off the top of the animal at impact as it's displaced by the bullet. It is also the most viable explanation that the animal reacted and survived the impact. I shot an antelope this year about where you think you did, slightly mor back and high, and the wound was devastating at 970 yards with a 7mm 175 elite hunter leaving the muzzle at 2760 FPS. It completely severed the spine with an exit wound 6" in diameter. The follow up was through the shoulder after a .3 mil wind correction and broke both shoulders. Also have it on videohere.

 

[PNWdude67]

I'm thinking the confirmation bias cuts both ways. Everyone seems so sure of themselves. I'm willing to accept the fact that the OP has a better video than we do and is certain of impact location. He says he initially thought it was a miss, but learned later upon review of video that there was impact. We can't prove anything conclusively without a post mortem. I've also had animals react opposite from what you'd think to shot location, so that in itself is not conclusive evidence. What you think you see from a distance in terms of where the hair is flying from, is rather subjective to all sorts of things. Inexplicable things happen in the field. Not a perfect world. Meplat/tip issue? Happens sometimes on those projos if not cleaned/drilled. If impact was indeed where OP suggests, while it's far from ideal location, it would appear to be an expansion issue. Low restriction media combined with low velocity can make problems. Oh, gotta get "Hammers" in here somewhere. Try one of them next time.

As to the criticism to the shooter's abilities, I think we should leave that out of this discussion. I'll wager most of us have done bad hits on stuff a lot closer than that. Just because I do a bad hit at 100 yds doesn't mean I'm gonna restrict myself to 50 yds next time. So many variables and unknowns here. We are always learning, and many times by our mistakes/miscalculations. No sense diminishing ourselves or this thread by negative insinuations on assumptions. The Golden Rule applies all around.

Yep, missing or misplacement of a shot is a learning opportunity for all of us and happens and will continue to happen with all of us as long as we engage targets and game at any range. We all intend to take the best shot we can at the opportune moment and nobody is 100% perfect.

 

[Ga6570]

My antelope on Saturday was hit where you mark the picture and was DRT. Granted it was a 80 yard dead running shot so it hit further back than I wanted… all that long range shooting came in handy first spotted them at 883, but circled around to push the herd to the older guys I was hunting with. After they both shot and missed (70 options in the herd) the antelope decided to run back by me… 6.5 PRC 143gr ELDX@3010fps.

 

[Moose Whacker]

Antelope are tough!!! Yer gonna have to go to .340-458 Weatherby Mag. 450 gr. bullet!!!

 

[bozoben]

Antelope are tough!!! Yer gonna have to go to .340-458 Weatherby Mag. 450 gr. bullet!!!

There's always next year

 

[bozoben]

I will say I appreciate everyones input. I'm not new to hunting and have killed at least my fair share of animals but obviously if the general consensus is something other than my opinion then I may need to change my view.
Either way, I try to learn from each and every experience, so thanks.

 

[Raudy707]

Thanks for being such a good sport!

 

[PNWdude67]

Antelope are tough!!! Yer gonna have to go to .340-458 Weatherby Mag. 450 gr. bullet!!!

Haha! Yeah, lots of 50 BMG powder available too for that 200 grain case capacity!

 

[jessegibson1978]

Make sure the tips on your Bergers are open and not pinched. I have had personal experience with this issue and it will pencil through like a FMJ. It was with a 338 Lapua, 300 Bergers VLD on game. A guy would expect "bang,flop", but it wasn't the case.

You can get a meplat trimmer or do like I did and welder tip cleaner to clear out the tips. Do it every time now and the Bergers perform as they should. I shoot Bergers in 7mm, 30 cal and 338 and it's only the big 338's that I have to make sure the tips are clear and open.

Had the same issue Broz told me to try that no issue since.

 

[dogz]

watching the trace it's interesting to see the angle that the bullets come down on prior to making contact.

Side note, to those mentioning they saw hair come off so it had to be a high hit...About 15 years ago I took out a lope at 300 yards or so. Bullet was a 120 TSX out of my 7 Mashburn Super. The buck went down at the shot, hit behind the front and below the spine.

The show of air flying in the air off the offside was indeed something to see. Just saying....

 

[59FLH]

I will say I appreciate everyones input. I'm not new to hunting and have killed at least my fair share of animals but obviously if the general consensus is something other than my opinion then I may need to change my view.
Either way, I try to learn from each and every experience, so thanks.

Aim for the exit.