Energy or bullet diameter most important?

[Lenny Foffa]

T truly do not know ! My conservative estimation is 1800 to 1900 pounds of energy fir elk at POI and about 1300 pounds for deer at POI ! So fir me that will mean a closer shot than others may take to make sure I'm delivering that energy to the correct location on the animal ! Just a personal choice without using the E. Word to justify

 

[Chas1]

Hard to beat .308/.338 cal holes in game !

+1

 

[2Rope]

It is hard to say with any degree of accuracy without actually knowing…!

 

[Muledeerhuntingfreak]

Larger heaver bullets can transfer more energy to the game and have more momentum that Helps penetrate thicker skin and bodies.

A lighter smaller bullet may have the same energy but does not have the ability to transfer all of its energy unless it is stopped buy the game hunted.

In many cases cartridges like the 7 Rem mag will pass completely through a deer sized animal without transferring all of its energy allowing the animal to run long distances before collapsing, but a less powerful cartridge like the 7/08 will knock them off there feet with far less potential energy and transfer most if not all of its energy to the game.

So to answer your question , It is a combination of both, based on the game you will be hunting. Ideally, you want the bullet to end up under the skin on the opposite side (It delivered all of its energy to the game).

J E CUSTOM

The only way the bullet passes all the way through an animal is because you're running too light of a bullet with A7M remag you should be. Running a heavier bullet one eighty one seventy five

 

[Radman]

Let's say you are hunting for elk sized and smaller game and are targeting 750 yards or less. Would you say it would be more important for lethal, ethical kill to be the size of the bullet (just an example 30 caliber vs 25 caliber) or the ballistic energy the bullet gives out to that range (just an example 1200 vs 1800 lbs regardless of bullet size)?

I am trying to leave this somewhat open ended to avoid only comments from those who love a certain caliber, but I am considering a future rifle and am hopeful with plenty of practice I could possible do what I listed above. So many calibers out there, I just want to start with the right base and get proficient from there.

Thanks in advance.

This is a great question & I'm not sure that there is any one answer carved in stone. I.too have wrestled with this question for several years.
I can do the math. (It's hard to argue with) I've seen what a .45-70 can do. (It's hard to argue with...it's even hard to believe)
The math is convincing.
Seeing what a .45-70 does is convincing.
High energy going fast is deadly. (Ferrari)
Big diameter bullets are deadly. (Caterpillar)
IMO: It all boils down to range.
No matter - the last arguement is bullet placement.

My new favorite sign: "What doesn't kill you will make you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you."

 

[FEENIX]

The only way the bullet passes all the way through an animal is because you're running too light of a bullet with A7M remag you should be. Running a heavier bullet one eighty one seventy five

Sorry, but Brother Jerry will not be able to respond to you; he is now in heaven watching over us.

 

[memtb]

Might as well use a grenade launcher

Would you describe a 50 cal. Black Powder rifle using the aforementioned type of projectile as a "Rocket Launcher"?

A moderately sharp pointed "full metal jacket" bullet will act much like stepping on on a nail.….a large nail! The bullet opens a relatively small hole, pushes the tissue aside causing minimal damage, in relationship to the diameter of the bullet!

There is a reason that non expanded bullets were the bullet determined by the Geneva Convention to be used in warfare!

Read about the number of amputations during the War of Northern Aggression…..there was so much tissue and bone destroyed by those very large diameter bullets, the limbs were too destroyed to save. These terrible wounds were caused by large diameter, slow moving projectiles! The same type bullets were very effectively used in contributing to the decimation of the Buffalo (Bison) herds. Had they used , nice aerodynamic, non-expanding bullets…..they would not have been nearly as effective! memtb

 

[HockeyDad]

I can shoot a steel target with huge energy and it will cause it to swing a few inches. I can push that same target with one finger and create a larger swing.

I'm no physicist, but I'd rather have someone push me with their finger than shoot me with a .300 Win Mag.

 

[memtb]

Excellent article

Yes it is! I have suggested the reading of that article many, many times! memtb

Terminal Ballistics

 

[memtb]

I'm no physicist, but I'd rather have someone push me with their finger than shoot me with a .300 Win Mag.

I'm certain that simply failed to insert the emoji in your response……as Steve was using that as an example of the fallacies pertaining to bullet energy upon the target! You may find the following read interesting, and very educational pertaining to the "work" performed by a bullet upon flesh! memtb

 

[Paladin300]

Larger heaver bullets can transfer more energy to the game and have more momentum that Helps penetrate thicker skin and bodies.

A lighter smaller bullet may have the same energy but does not have the ability to transfer all of its energy unless it is stopped buy the game hunted.

In many cases cartridges like the 7 Rem mag will pass completely through a deer sized animal without transferring all of its energy allowing the animal to run long distances before collapsing, but a less powerful cartridge like the 7/08 will knock them off there feet with far less potential energy and transfer most if not all of its energy to the game.

So to answer your question , It is a combination of both, based on the game you will be hunting. Ideally, you want the bullet to end up under the skin on the opposite side (It delivered all of its energy to the game).

J E CUSTOM

I agree with your statements. Both/And! I think it is a balancing act between the two. You need both energy and bullet diameter to create terminal wounds that kill efficiently and quickly. Bullet design, velocity and energy at range and shot placement are all important to the equation. Therefore you need to chose the largest caliber that delivers the best energy at your estimated average hunting distance which is appropriate for the game you are hunting. Further more you need to be able to shoot the rifle accurately. Bigger is not better if you can't hit the broad side of a barn with it. An example if we are talking about large heavy boned animals or big toothy critters with a whole lot of bad attitude would be the 338 win mag. It has proven itself on just about every animal on planet earth. So let's set it and the 375 H&H as the standards for all things big, bad and tough on the planet. However, a lot of people cannot handle the recoil of either or shoot them accurately even once. So you need to go down form there until you can hit what you are aiming at consistently with a caliber that can deliver energy and terminal performance. Then you need to determine how far you can shoot game. For me big game has a 450 yard max with a 338. My preferred caliber of choice in a light rifle is 270 and on deer size game I would be comfortable out to 750 but on elk and bear 400. It really is a balancing act. If I could not afford multiple calibers from which I could choose? As much as it pains me to say it, because I prefer the 308 and 300 WM. I would buy a 30-06. It is like vanilla ice cream, it's not fancy and kinda boring but it goes with everything. It does not do all things perfectly but has been proven reliable on everything on the planet and most people can shoot it accurately enough. Both/And! That's my story and I'm sticking too it!

 

[3800fps]

Read about the number of amputations during the War of Northern Aggression

You should thank a northerner every day …somebody had to stand up to those raging rioting racist Democrats back then.

 

[tomsd]

Let's say you are hunting for elk sized and smaller game and are targeting 750 yards or less. Would you say it would be more important for lethal, ethical kill to be the size of the bullet (just an example 30 caliber vs 25 caliber) or the ballistic energy the bullet gives out to that range (just an example 1200 vs 1800 lbs regardless of bullet size)?

I am trying to leave this somewhat open ended to avoid only comments from those who love a certain caliber, but I am considering a future rifle and am hopeful with plenty of practice I could possible do what I listed above. So many calibers out there, I just want to start with the right base and get proficient from there.

Thanks in advance.

Old school here - 30 Cal min for Elk - 180 grain min - and if taking long shots - 750 yards - might require a Magnum. 400? yards or less - a good ole 30.06 will do the job. Some prefer 200 or 220 grain bullets- but they slow down a bit at longer ranges.

 

[memtb]

Old school here - 30 Cal min for Elk - 180 grain min - and if taking long shots - 750 yards - might require a Magnum. 400? yards or less - a good ole 30.06 will do the job. Some prefer 200 or 220 grain bullets- but they slow down a bit at longer ranges.

Perfectly adequate! However a larger diameter, well placed, properly constructed bullet, of moderately high velocity …..adds a degree of insurance for larger game! memtb