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Eldx bullet aleryt!

I was using digital micrometer. Supposedly accurate to - 0.00005

Like Tom's method of putting the micrometer in a vise and passing the bullets thru the arms like a go/nogo gauge, if you were having to sort something like that.

Would like to know what Ray's $700 tool is. :)

This what I use at my shop. We probably have between 12-15 of these and also have a few that measure within .00005 as well.
MSC# 08102170
I tried to copy and paste on my phone but did not work. If you want to look at them, Google MSC Direct and type in the item number I supplied.
Oh yea, I was off on my price a little as you will see lol!

Ray
 
Re: Eld-X bullet alert!

Mitutoyo 510-131. $848.00 @ MSC Industrial Supply.

Mitutoyo%20-%20510-131_zpsptb5incs.jpg
 
Re: Eld-X bullet alert!

Mitutoyo 510-131. $848.00 @ MSC Industrial Supply.

Mitutoyo%20-%20510-131_zpsptb5incs.jpg

Yup, Paul those are the ones. Over 35 years you accumulate a lot of stuff. Look, there is no way I would spend that kind of money to check a bullet! Wow, that's a whole lot of bullets I could buy. Truth is when I started checking my samples of eld's I started using my mic that sits in my desk at work. I got lazy and grabbed one of these just cause it made it easier and quicker to check. My eyes are getting worse and was just faster and easier to see.

Someone here asked if you took a few people and them check a part to .0001 if they would come up with the same reading. I would put $10.00 on that bet and my bet would be that NO they would not all get the same reading.
For the record, we do not machine parts with a .0001 total tolerance. We have machined some parts with a .0002-.0003 tolerance.
Now grinding a part is a whole different ball game! Even so, .0001 is a extremely small number!!
Check it out for yourself, put a bullet in the fridge and check it after 5 minutes. Take same bullet and place in the shade on warm day and check it again. Then a room temperature preferably at 68 degrees. You will get three different readings. Not rocket science.

What is making some sense to me anyway is diameter differences. The bigger the variations are in bullet diameter the more pressure you would have versus a smaller diameter bullet out of the same lot. I think that would effect ES but you guys would know better than me.

Ray
PS. If you really want a good micrometer Google a Super Micrometer! That will blow your hair back!
 
I did an experiment yesterday. I took a .308 cal bullet that was measured at a dia of .30805" at 78*F. I stuck it in the freezer that is about 0*F. I don't have a good thermometer in it. Pulled it out and measured the bullet at .30785". That puts the bullet below specs that I will allow them out the door. I was keeping my production at 2 ten thousandths over groove dia with a 2 ten thousandths tolerance. After this thread and some discussions with others I decided that I should keep my bullets at groove dia with a 2 ten Thousandth tolerance. I am not sure this is a good idea given the amount of shrinkage with cold temps. There is an assumption that the bore of the rifle will shrink in the cold as well. Does it match the bullet shrinkage and all is good? I would tend to think they do not contract at the same rate.

I don't want to hijack this thread as it is about another brand of bullet from my own, but I think it all translates over.

I would like to hear more thoughts on this, so smart guys jump in.

Steve
 
It looks like the coefficients of thermal expansion are pretty similar for copper and steel and stainless steel. So the copper bullet and the steel barrel should expand and contract similarly in OD and ID during temperature swings. I think you should manufacture your bullets based solely on barrel bore diameters, without regard to temperature induced changes in bore ID and bullet OD.

Don't confuse my response with being smart... I've had a few engineering courses that covered the science/properties of these materials, so I have that background and conceptual understanding to draw on. Bullet OD will increase with increasing temperature, and barrel/bore ID will also increase with increasing temperature. Both will decrease with decreasing temperature. And in the case of copper bullets and steel barrels, the increases/decreases should be very similar.
 
For what it's worth the cte of lead looks to be approximately double that of cooper/steel. So that has the possibility to creat some stress within the Bullets itself at hot/cold temps.
 
That is very true however thickness of the material also has to be taken in account. Also not being smart about it . Keeping ammo in a pocket while barrel is in the cold could also have bearing. Also when the projectile is tumbled to make it shine could have something to do with it as well.
 
There has been a lot of discussion, and excitement, about the new ELDX bullets on this forum, and for some good reasons. I recently shot some of the best groups ever with the 143's in my 6.5 SS which measured in the .0's. (.014" to be exact). Having said that, this forum is about sharing info which is beneficial to others, so we need to share the bad with the good.
I recently measured some 143's at .2642"-.2643" which CAN be a good thing for accuracy if the throat/bore combination happens to be loose enough. For MANY factory barrels, accuracy will likely be better than a bullet which measures .2640, which is what the bore SHOULD be. The down side is, if you happen to have a bore like my 6.5 L A Sherman which is on the tight side, this can cause pressure issues even before normal velocity is reached (and it has)!
Here is another case in point: A customer is building a 6.5 SS custom with a lot of high dollar components and wants to shoot the 143 ELDX. (based largely on the excellent results I had). He ordered several hundred of the 143's and they measured, like mine, 2 to 3 tenths oversize. So here is the problem! Most throats are .0005" over bore size and SOME competitive shooters like to run them even tighter than that. If the throat is only .0005" over bore size and the bullet is .0003" over already, you only have .0001" clearance per side in the throat area. THIS IS NOT ENOUGH and can quickly cause pressure spikes. Now, if you want to shoot these bullets, you need another reamer, or at least a throater, which will open it up. This is a burden, and an expense for gunsmiths, and most of the time it would not even be caught. The customer would receive the rifle and it might shoot another brand just fine but they would have issues with the over sized bullet. Guess who would normally get the blame? Most people don't measure all their bullets, and they shouldn't have to.
The customer who is building the 6.5 SS, which I eluded to above, will have a choice to make. He can have his chamber throated oversize to accommodate the bullets he has, and hope the next batch is the same, or he can chamber with a std. throat and shoot something else. Because all these issues were surfacing, he called Hornady and talked to someone named Doug in their bullet dept. Doug told him that these bullets were "WELL" within spec. I decided to call Hornady myself this a.m. and specifically asked for Doug, but got someone named Preston. He was helpful in that he looked up the Hornady "spec" sheet for the 143's and found that tolerance was .0002"-.0003" which made them BARELY meeting spec! What happens if the next batch is .0003" UNDER bore size but still is within spec? I think you can see the dilemma from a builders, and a customers standpoint.
I recently purchased some 175's for my 7SS so I went to the shop and measured them. They were at .2839, or .0001" under size which is far more normal for most bullets.
There is at least one barrel manufacturer that regularly makes barrels with the bore on the tight side. This is likely to gain a little accuracy edge because they want the bullet to fit the bore tightly. The downside is you usually loose velocity, and have to load a little lighter to keep pressure down. Imagine if you get one of these barrels, AND a bullet that is FAT!
Again, I am not posting this to give Hornady a bad name. I will likely shoot the 143's in my SS because they shoot VERY well and I like the way they expand, coupled with the high b.c.
Everyone can decide for themselves which way they want to go, but just be forewarned of the downside.........Rich

I just noticed the "y" in my "alert" title, but don't know how to edit it out, so deal with it:D
if you absolutely need .264 push your bullets through a sizing die. I have done this for 308win and 7mm rm,,, found that it was not worth the extra effort. But, hey try it it may be worth it to you, as a foot note spray lube them first and the lee sizer worked easyer than my lyman
 
It looks like the coefficients of thermal expansion are pretty similar for copper and steel and stainless steel. So the copper bullet and the steel barrel should expand and contract similarly in OD and ID during temperature swings. I think you should manufacture your bullets based solely on barrel bore diameters, without regard to temperature induced changes in bore ID and bullet OD.

Don't confuse my response with being smart... I've had a few engineering courses that covered the science/properties of these materials, so I have that background and conceptual understanding to draw on. Bullet OD will increase with increasing temperature, and barrel/bore ID will also increase with increasing temperature. Both will decrease with decreasing temperature. And in the case of copper bullets and steel barrels, the increases/decreases should be very similar.

Thanks Paul,

I will stay with groove dia as the constant.

Steve
 
I've measured three different boxes of 200 Gr ELD-X bullets from three different lots. All of them measure .3075"
 
I was going to knock the dust off my 264 and give the eldx a run but after reading this I'll probably just finish working up a load with the 150 matrix. My approach to accuracy has always been about minimizing variables. The amount of variation Ray found in his lot of slugs would definitely by alarming to me.
 
I'm sorry for resurrecting an old thread but I just now found this. I have multiple lots of 143's from the first and second runs as well as a couple lots of 140 ELD's and Berger Elite Hunters. I measured bullets from all the lots of all the bullets and they all measured .2638". That's measured on a stand vernier sleeved micrometer that measures to .0001".

Given everyone's experience and me having boxes from early on I'm wondering how I got lucky with no variation and under .264".
 
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