Eldx bullet aleryt!

[elkaholic]

Re: Eld-X bullet alert!

What a hassle. I've not purchased any ELD-X bullets yet, but had been expecting to after this fall hunting season, after more users sounded in with their on-game performance. MidwayUSA just sent me an e-mail informing me they had the .308 212gr ELD-X in stock. I just hit the pause button on my keyboard.

How difficult can it be for a bullet manufacturer to control the OD of the bullets they produce? Seems as simple as measuring the OD of the first few coming out of a newly installed die, and then periodic measurements as the dies wear and enlarge over continued use. Perhaps Hornady set their tolerances too loosely, at levels they didn't think would cause any notable problems for shooters? Either that or they need to improve their QA/QC to recognize dies when they wear to the point of oversized sloppy? Either way, this spells CLUSTER.

Do we really have to accept occasional blown primers due to overpressure from oversized bullets, in order to get tips that don't melt?

Pretty sure Rich won't be working for Hornady anytime soon...

After this thread, I doubt I am on their short list for hire, but dangit, this needed to come out!

 

[Pdvdh]

Re: Eld-X bullet alert!

No pain - No gain.

That's what my psycho high school football coach ranted - endlessly...

 

[elkaholic]

What is REALLY crazy is .0006 variation in the same lot as was posted earlier!!

 

[tom m.]

Guy's, it's not uncommon at all to see "fat" bullets from berger also. If it's any relief, I throated one of my dashers to .2440" to accommodate some custom "fatties". I've since tried a skinny lot of bergers in that barrel and it hammers them. So I feel erring on the side of "loose" won't hurt you if you switch bullets. The pressure issues seem to be more so if the shank is fat. I never seen much difference if the pressure ring is bigger, but if that shank is a "slip fit" in the leade then it definitely raises start pressure.

Rich, where are you in reference to the lands? Sounds like you really have them grouping good.

Tom

 

[elkaholic]

Guy's, it's not uncommon at all to see "fat" bullets from berger also. If it's any relief, I throated one of my dashers to .2440" to accommodate some custom "fatties". I've since tried a skinny lot of bergers in that barrel and it hammers them. So I feel erring on the side of "loose" won't hurt you if you switch bullets. The pressure issues seem to be more so if the shank is fat. I never seen much difference if the pressure ring is bigger, but if that shank is a "slip fit" in the leade then it definitely raises start pressure.

Rich, where are you in reference to the lands? Sounds like you really have them grouping good.

Tom

I was about .005" off but they were not as finicky as Bergers and shot pretty well over quite a range.....Rich

 

[Pdvdh]

Guy's, it's not uncommon at all to see "fat" bullets from berger also. If it's any relief, I throated one of my dashers to .2440" to accommodate some custom "fatties". I've since tried a skinny lot of bergers in that barrel and it hammers them. So I feel erring on the side of "loose" won't hurt you if you switch bullets. The pressure issues seem to be more so if the shank is fat. I never seen much difference if the pressure ring is bigger, but if that shank is a "slip fit" in the leade then it definitely raises start pressure.

Tom

Tom,
I've read your post 3 times and still don't know what to make of it. How can bullets of differing diameters within the same lot provide consistent pressures and MVs with the same primer and powder charges. Shooting good groups at 1-300 yards may be possible with variable pressure and MV, but then again maybe not, if the rifle/barrel is sensitive to different pressure/MV loads. But how can any rifle maintain accuracy at 1000yds with differing MV?

What's the pressure ring you refer to? And what's a "slip fit" in the leade mean?

Throating a chamber to a bullet seems pretty outlandish. Shouldn't the bullet manufacturers be manufacturing bullets to fit a "standard" throat diameter? I'm not interested in throating a chamber to any specific brand of bullets. Seems ludicrous to my way of thinking. And I'm not interested in having to modify my powder charges with every new lot of bullets to return to my accuracy MV.

So while I'd prefer to warm to your position that variable bullet ODs are no big deal, the truth is - without a better understanding of where you're coming from, it still seems like a big deal.

 

[Pdvdh]

Hi,

I have contacted Hornady two times now inquiring about the 143 ELD X bullets diameter. I spoke with Doug in Tech Support ( 800 338-3220 ). As Rich stated above, Doug told me that their bullet diameters were well within spec. I asked a few more questions about the bullet diameter and his answer was the same. In fact he seemed a little irritated that I would even question him about this. Cannot say I blame the guy....how would he know if I even know how or have the equipment to check a bullet correctly

Ray

Ray,
Just relax your manufacturing/machining tolerances to a lesser standard. Or relax your bullet OD measuring tolerances to a lesser level of accuracy - a level that lacks meaning. Then you'll feel better... Well maybe you'll think you feel better... Or maybe NOT.

I don't feel good about variable pressure and MV. Where's the good in that???

Do we now need to start sorting bullets by diameter to maintain consistent MV/pressure?

 

[elkaholic]

I can understand variation to a degree, but .0006" in one box? I think the guy at Hornady should run for congress......Rich

 

[Timber338]

I'm curious what tools you guys are using to measure these bullet diameters so accurately?

 

[tom m.]

Tom,
I've read your post 3 times and still don't know what to make of it. How can bullets of differing diameters within the same lot provide consistent pressures and MVs with the same primer and powder charges. Shooting good groups at 1-300 yards may be possible with variable pressure and MV, but then again maybe not, if the rifle/barrel is sensitive to different pressure/MV loads. But how can any rifle maintain accuracy at 1000yds with differing MV?

What's the pressure ring you refer to? And what's a "slip fit" in the leade mean?

Throating a chamber to a bullet seems pretty outlandish. Shouldn't the bullet manufacturers be manufacturing bullets to fit a "standard" throat diameter? I'm not interested in throating a chamber to any specific brand of bullets. Seems ludicrous to my way of thinking. And I'm not interested in having to modify my powder charges with every new lot of bullets to return to my accuracy MV.

So while I'd prefer to warm to your position that variable bullet ODs are no big deal, the truth is - without a better understanding of where you're coming from, it still seems like a big deal.

You'll have to pardon my lack of comprehension. I didn't realize you guys were talking variations within ONE lot of bullets. Yes, that is flyers, and at any distance.

By pressure ring, it's common on berger vld to see a touch larger diameter right above the boat tail. I've not seen pressure problems if they run a tad over.

Shank- the rest of the bearing surface as you work up towards the nose. If the shank is "snug" in the free bore diameter, as it sits at rest, while in battery...... this I have seen raise pressures, and were I have personally opened the leade diameter for my needs. And in that barrel, I stated were I actually shot some different bullets, that were much smaller and had it perform great. In other words, it didn't hurt me when switching back to a "normal" sized bullet.

Hopefully I typed better, towards what I could explain much better.


Tom

Guys,

As for measuring to a tenth, it's pretty easy to screw it up. What I do, witch is more for sorting rather than measuring. I will lock the micrometer, and put it in a vise to keep the heat off it. I then pass bullets through, using it for a go/no go for lack of a better term. I don't like hearing this news, as the last thing I want to do is 1000 yard benchrest bullet prep on my dang hunting rigs. Having shot more than 33,000 rounds at 1k paper with match rifles, I can tell you for a fact that sorting bullets every which way SUCKS.

Tom

 

[Barrelnut]

I'm curious what tools you guys are using to measure these bullet diameters so accurately?

I was using digital micrometer. Supposedly accurate to - 0.00005

Like Tom's method of putting the micrometer in a vise and passing the bullets thru the arms like a go/nogo gauge, if you were having to sort something like that.

Would like to know what Ray's $700 tool is.

 

[Edd]

If five of you guys took the same micrometer and measured the same bullet to the nearest .0001", how many different measurements do you think there would be?

 

[Pdvdh]

If we all measured them with Ray's tool, zero. 0.000000000000"

 

[bigngreen]

Ray and I are to the tenth on the same lot of bullets with different micrometers, he can measure to what every number you want, ya it's small but when you spec a reamer the typical size is .0005 over nominal with some manufacturing tolerance so if your running .00025 of clearance per side all of the sudden those little numbers are important.
I recently set a 7-300 barrel back that was speced specifically to a 180 Berger hunting and shoots them phenomenally well, the rifle threw up on 195's unless they were poking along. In setting it back I opened the throat up a couple tenths and shortened it by .075 from the original, it gained 100+ fps with normal pressures, HUGE!

In some circles changing the throating diameter and length with each lot of bullets isn't considered outlandish, I do think maybe we have a tendency to go to "custom" sometimes and it narrows our operating window. I also know if Tom's gun shot small bullets just as good with a little more room for fatties then I'm taking note and trying to maybe not be so anal retentive about