ELDMs Blowing up mid flight

[Timnterra]

Did you mention who made the barrel and what rifling configuration it has? I've heard of eldm bullets blowing up but I shoot the 180 eldm in a 7-300 win mag at 3095 and I've never experienced a problem. I have heard that some barrels are harder on the jackets than others, specifically if it is a 4 groove barrel. I have a 6 groove and the groves are not as wide and I wonder if that has any effect on the bullet coming apart?

 

[jdavistx]

What does the Hornady say? Their response would be interesting one way or the other.

If you talk with them, please share.

 

[slowshot18]

Did you mention who made the barrel and what rifling configuration it has? I've heard of eldm bullets blowing up but I shoot the 180 eldm in a 7-300 win mag at 3095 and I've never experienced a problem. I have heard that some barrels are harder on the jackets than others, specifically if it is a 4 groove barrel. I have a 6 groove and the groves are not as wide and I wonder if that has any effect on the bullet coming apart?

Its a proof 26" 1:8 twist barrel. Not sure of the # of grooves of the top of my head.

What does the Hornady say? Their response would be interesting one way or the other.

If you talk with them, please share.

I'll smash on Hornady this week and see what they come back with. I doubt they'll care much. But you never know!

 

[buckbrush]

What does the Hornady say? Their response would be interesting one way or the other.

If you talk with them, please share.

Been there done that. They don't care.

 

[Kmccord]

I'm fully aware that 5 shot strings in a 28 is a death sentence on barrel life. I run a barrel kuhl through the gun after every 2 shots on normal strings. This test today I ran 3 straight, waited 5 minutes then the final 2 to try and see if it was just from being too hot. The 5 shot string had no failures.

And yes it has sped up quite a bit. From rounds 20-80 the average was 3070 FPS now at 120 it's 3170. Still grouping decent when they don't come apart.

Once the rifle is dialed in, it will stay a hunting rifle only. Once season is over, I'll remove the barrel and throw my 300wm barrel back on (it's a bartlein MTU so it's heavy for hunting).

I'll have a few boxes of 177 hammers delivered this week and we'll see how those do! Haven't been able to find 175 eldx, 180 vlds, or 195 eols. 177 HH were in stock so those will have to do for this season.

I have a 28 Nosler, I was going to buy the 177 HH, but another person on LRH tried those in his 28N with a 1:8 twist, but had problems with them not stabilizing, he had a few that seemed to Tumble. This person dropped down to the 169HH and everything stabalized. I will be curious to hear your reports, I have the 169, but have not tested yet. I am at 440' above sea level, not sure if at higher elevations if those would perform better.

 

[bretterath]

I have a 7 max running the 180 eldm at 2925 and haven't had a problem with them yet. My wife kids and I killed 12 animals with the 180's last year and performed great. 2 elk at the 450 mark, 5 antelope from 3-500 and 5 deer from 250-500. The one cow elk took 2 shots since it was a little far back. The eldm are definitely explosive and would not try to should shoot 350 and under when you have a high velocity. I did shoot the one buck through the front shoulder at 350 and it was drt. Have not had one fail yet. Definitely not meat friendly

 

[Longrangers]

My 28 nosler has approximately 120 round down the tube as of today. Its a 26" proof 1:8. The first 100 rounds did well, mainly for load development, zeroing, etc. I've been using 1 box of Hornady 180 ELDMs (just opened a new box for these last 20 rounds), N570, with ADG brass. My 180's are from several different lots (tough times finding bulk supplies).
As of now, my load with 82 gr of N570 is pushing the 180's to 3130 fps.
Today at my local range I was finally setting the zero stop on my scope. These rounds were with the new box of 180 ELDMs. First 3 rounds were fine, made and adjustment, then I get this on the target, 3 inches high, when I have yet to touch the elevation:
View attachment 298557

At first, I thought the bullet just tumbled. Well, it did tumble, but it was also coming apart. Upon closer examination, you can see the gray marks on the paper when part of the jacket impacted the paper, with a shape that is not just a tumbling bullet. Started to think well, may be it was due to me recently stripping down the barrel and just shrugged it off.

Went 5 for 5 with no issues. Even let the barrel get rather warm during that string too. It was fine. Then the next 3 groups of 3 had issues, with at least 1 round going way off target and never making the paper. I had a friend observe the impacts as well.

I was lucky enough to catch another separation on paper. This one you can clearly see the gray marks on the paper where the deformed jacket was striking the paper.

View attachment 298559

Has anyone else had this problem? I've read about 28 noslers having ELDMs blowing up completely when speeds exceed 3200 fps. I'm also aware that QA/QC has probably gone down the drain too, given the state of the industry.
With this experience, the expense to shoot this rifle, and me needing to have it dialed in before November, I ordered 150 rounds of 177 gr hammer hunts. At least with solids the odds of them coming apart are slim mid flight.

I have had it happen with a 7/300 weatherby and I switched to Berger's and had no problem. From that point on I never shot them out of my 28 nosler. I did try SST and they held together but couldn't get them to shoot as good as the Berger's. I had people spotting when I was shooting the hornady out of my 7/300 to a 1000ydsand they said that they could see the white puff as it came apart. I contacted hornady and they had admitted that they probably did and said try the sst. They held together but like I said I couldn't get them to shoot as good as the Berger's.

 

[squeeeeze]

I had that same issue with my 28Nosler a couple years ago. I had a Proof 1:8.66" twist. I wasn't shooting them excessively fast or fast firing. I had bullets that weren't even making it to paper at 100 yards. Coming apart before they could even hit a hill side at 300 yards that was visible.

I'd talked to Hornady and just got excuses from them. It's my fault that I was "hot rodding" them because of the cartridge I was shooting, regardless of speed. Again nothing crazy or any crazy rpms.

I asked them if I could send them in and I wanted an answer as to why this was happening. I called them back for several months to ask them if they tested them yet but kept telling me they didn't have a gun to shoot them with and would have to get one built. I finally gave up and stopped asking them the outcome because it was obvious they weren't going to put the effort (at least publicly) forth and let me know what the deal was.

I asked to get some replacement bullets for a different caliber and they did so. They took care of me for some 6.5mm Eld-X. I'm personally done with the 180 Eld-M and will never shoot them. I'm now shooting Berger's out of it and very happy. Just not worth it to me, to each their own though.

 

[Timnterra]

There are several threads on this on the web from accurate shooter, snipers hide and long range only. It seems like a down the middle split some guys have them blow up and some don't. I think the bullet has a very thin jacket and some barrels pull them apart and some barrels don't. I don't think it's a quality control thing I think it's just a weak jacket design. Unfortunately they have the highest BC available and some barrels just won't shoot them. I would just sign off on using the eldm and pick a different bullet for that rifle. Look at the Berger 195 EOL or the badlands bulldozer bullets they are the only monolithic bullet that has a good bc, unfortunately they require a fast spin barrel.

 

[30378wbymag]

If you got a borescope look at the throat you'll see firecracking as the bullet goes over the firecracking it hurts the jacket integrity, then the torque on the bullet from the rpms tears the bullet apart.
[/QUOTE

That load spins @ over 280,000 RPM's!!!! Lotta stress!!!

 

[Cheezie]

Bullets are either stable or unstable. There is no such thing as over stable.

Actually, stability is a parameter that can vary either way from neutral. Stability is the property that describes a bullet's response to a perturbation perpendicular to its flight path. If disturbed, the bullet will wobble ever so slightly and recover (positive stability) or it will diverge in the direction of the perturbation (negative stability.) If stability is neutral, the stability parameter is 1.0; less than 1.0 is negative stability, greater than 1.0 is positive stability. Most bullet people advise using a barrel twist rate for a particular bullet and velocity that results in a stability parameter of at least 1.3, and 2.0 or 2.5 is better (more stable.) The higher the stability the more resistant the bullet is to disturbances to its flight path.

 

[L.Sherm]

unfortunately they require a fast spin barrel.

This is exactly what the O.P has. The 195's would be my recommendation if he's got enough freebore and mag box length for them.
Here's a good read from Bison Ballistics andvits exactly what I agree with.

 

[L.Sherm]

Actually, stability is a parameter that can vary either way from neutral. Stability is the property that describes a bullet's response to a perturbation perpendicular to its flight path. If disturbed, the bullet will wobble ever so slightly and recover (positive stability) or it will diverge in the direction of the perturbation (negative stability.) If stability is neutral, the stability parameter is 1.0; less than 1.0 is negative stability, greater than 1.0 is positive stability. Most bullet people advise using a barrel twist rate for a particular bullet and velocity that results in a stability parameter of at least 1.3, and 2.0 or 2.5 is better (more stable.) The higher the stability the more resistant the bullet is to disturbances to its flight path.

I can guarantee you the majority of
of the successful 1000, BR shooters stay around thst 1.5- 1.7 SG number for a reason.
There also using 4 and 5 groove barrels

 

[Timnterra]

This is exactly what the O.P has. The 195's would be my recommendation if he's got enough freebore and mag box length for them.
Here's a good read from Bison Ballistics andvits exactly what I agree with.

8 twist is not fast enough for the heaviest badlands bulldozer bullets it's fine for the 195