ELD-M minimum velocity for “expansion”?

[chav0_12]

Is there a recommended, or experienced, minimum velocity for terminal performance for the ELD-M (or any other "target" bullets, Berger comes to mind)? I'm doing some ballistic comparisons and have a few hundred ELD-Ms in different calibers and for different cartridges that I'm thinking I want to try for next hunting season. I'm just trying to figure out what the limits are for these, and if it even makes sense. If anyone has any personal experience with these I'd be ecstatic to hear your experiences. Currently I'm thinking of trying the 140 ELD-M in my 6.5 Creedmoor compared to the 143 ELD-X, also the 180gr ELD-M compared to the 195 EOL in my 28 Nosler. I have others that I'd consider trying too, like a 120gr ELD-M in a 6.5 Grendel or 162gr ELD-M vs ELD-X in a 7mm WSM. I'm open to suggestions as well, mostly in the Berger and Hornady lines.

 

[chav0_12]

Another thing, velocity increases from something like a 195 EOL vs a 180 ELD-M or VLD in the 28 Nosler? Also the 143 ELD-X vs the 140 ELD-M? I pretty much find a bullet that I want to shoot and do whatever I can to make it shoot so I stick with my choices. I haven't tried the others, yet, but I can and want to if it makes sense.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Minimum velocity for RELIABLE expansion is variable in my experience.
Hitting bones makes a big difference once velocity is down to the minimum required for a bullet to expand.
If you hit ribs, not big bones, you may not get any useful expansion, depending on the bullet type and jacket thickness.
I tested Berger HT, Nosler ABLR & Sierra MK all at the same impact velocity of 1300fps. The only bullet that expanded reliably was the ABLR. The ABLR expanded every time in 6.5mm, 7mm, 30 cal and 33 cal. As soon as velocity dropped to 1000fps, none expanded, in fact, all boat tail bullets tested tumbled at that velocity. I had 1 ABLR that had a tip intact, all others they were missing.

Anyway, my conclusion is to follow the minimums and maximum, if there is a maximum, to the letter. Even Ballistic Tips prove to be iffy below 1800fps.
Food for thought.

Cheers.

 

[Huntnful]

You'll gain around 100FPS in the 28 nosler with the switch from 195's to 180's. And still gain BC.

I just killed an elk with the 180 ELDM at 2150fps impact velocity and performance was solid.

I like 2000fps as my minimum, but that has zero credibility or science behind it lol. Bullets just seem to work at or above that speed.

 

[chav0_12]

Anyway, my conclusion is to follow the minimums and maximum, if there is a maximum, to the letter. Even Ballistic Tips prove to be iffy below 1800fps.
Food for thought.

I'll never trust a Nosler BT anymore from an experience I've had. "Target" bullets don't typically come with a recommended velocity, hence the question. Is 1800 fps a basic for these target bullets too?

 

[Phil Rizzo]

That's why we/some of us start them out faster.

Maybe not quite as fast as a 7/300 NM, but fast.

Was your nosler BT experience with the old style 1st generation or the "hunting" variety? Velocity? Animal?

 

[chav0_12]

You'll gain around 100FPS in the 28 nosler with the switch from 195's to 180's. And still gain BC.

I just killed an elk with the 180 ELDM at 2150fps impact velocity and performance was solid.

I like 2000fps as my minimum, but that has zero credibility or science behind it lol. Bullets just seem to work at or above that speed.

That's what I have mocked up right now. My 195s at 3002 and the 180s at 3100. I just feel like it's a lot to expect 100fps dropping only 15grs.

 

[Huntnful]

It will be very close to 100fps. You'll start 1gr. higher in charge weight and possibly end up 2gr. higher.

 

[chav0_12]

That's why we/some of us start them out faster.

Maybe not quite as fast as a 7/300 NM, but fast.

Was your nosler BT experience with the old style 1st generation or the "hunting" variety? Velocity? Animal?

It was only a couple of years ago and they were new then. It was a hunting variety, not the varmint. It was a 6.5 Grendel at sub-100 yards, velocity form the muzzle was around 2500 fps, 120gr. If I had to guess it was even less than 75 yards. I hit it square in the lungs/high heart, with no reaction and no wounds. Next shot was in the base of its skull on a whitetail. Upon field dressing there was no damage in the vitals.

 

[dfanonymous]

There's a bunch of reviews on the ELMs on the YouTube space. Example:
I can confirm a few things in a sec as well.

I know a few guys on here made some decent shots on elk at distance with ELDMs and there's been a few questions on the difference between the two. I've posted a cross section before.


What I will say is both bullets can and will probably have jacket separation. There's no way around that as it's not bonded when it gets into bone.

Secondly, the eldm is basically a bomb. It dumps energy differently and just frags inside the animal. The X if it doesn't separate (usually at closer distance) will mushroom just fine at longer ranges.

The ELD Ms honestly have very similar ballistic characteristics as a the AMAX that they replaced.

Speaking of which, some FPS info https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Wound+Database/.30+cal+-+Hornady+A-Max.html

You can check to see if Nathan Foster updated this website with the actual ELDM, but if not, the AMAX is identical from my experiences.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I'll never trust a Nosler BT anymore from an experience I've had. "Target" bullets don't typically come with a recommended velocity, hence the question. Is 1800 fps a basic for these target bullets too?

I would think a good minimum to adhere to is 1800fps for RELIABLE expansion, except those bullets INTENDED for LR hunting.
Berger are different, some are bombs up close but work exceptionally well at LR. Others not so much.
I don't use Hornady bullets, but have heard they perform similar to Berger bullets expansion wise.

Cheers.

 

[FEENIX]

Is there a recommended, or experienced, minimum velocity for terminal performance for the ELD-M (or any other "target" bullets, Berger comes to mind)?

My go-to bullet is Berger, but as a general rule, I keep all C&C bullets >1600 FPS at POI.

Check this out: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/eld-m-terminal-performance.6881145/.

My buddy did extensive gel tests with ELD-Ms in .30 and .2 cal, but mostly in .24 cal, and recommends >1600 FPS.

 

[Longshotjames]

I have shot MANY MANY things with the .30 225eldM from 0-1730yds.
It will expand like a grenade down to 1800fps. Still pretty reliable to 1600fps. Now days I wont shoot at a distance past that for a live critter but I did take a deer once at 1250fps(1730yds) and there was very little expansion. It left a dime size whole through the front shoulder, nickle whole through the heart and Quarter size on the off shoulder.

1800fps impact is a good speed limit to put things down fast!
James

 

[birddog 68]

I think you will find some interest in this thread.

I've decided to go ahead and post my experience with this bullet on whitetails and black bears. I've only fired this bullet out of the 6.5 creedmoor with velocities between 2700-2850. I've gotten much more into terminal performance over the past 3 years whether it's bullets or broadheads.

It's no secret I'm a very big fan of the ELD-M bullet for whitetails and blackness and for goof reasons. I've yet to see either walk away from this bullet and live to tell the tale. After using it since it came out and killing a bunch of critters with it, I can comfortably say it is absolutely and 100% a winner of a bullet without a shadow of a doubt at creedmoor velocity.

I dont have pics of absolutely every critter I've (or near family) I'll list what I have. I don't have an exact count on how much we've killed with it, but it's quite a few.

I'll start with my latest trip to NC for hunting whitetails. First put is a doe shot at about 125 yards. Broke the front side shoulder, exiting behind the opposing side shoulder. Dropper her like a ton of bricks the rib cGe pics are the exit wound. Entry side coming in was about the size of a golf ball. I didnt get any pics of the vitals unfortunately. As you can see from the stuff in the bottom of the rin cage, everything was literal mush.View attachment 405400View attachment 405401View attachment 405402View attachment 405403

Now we move onto doe #2 from NC. Due to the situation I didn't get any pics of it so I apologize for it. The guides were in a hurry so I honestly didn't have time. This deer also dropped immediately without a twitch. It didn't break the entry shoulder, but it broke the exit with the bullet stopping on the off side in the hide. Very similar to what you saw above

Now we move to doe #3. Shot was 185 yards. Broke the entry shoulder and the hole you see is the exit out the back. Deer wheelies and ran 20 yards. Once again, vitals where mush. There is also a pic of the heart (atleast what's left of it) attached.

View attachment 405406

View attachment 405408Now we move to the deer my son shot the past weekend. Shot was 100 yards. He hit it a smidge back but that was ok because the eld-m sent enough fragments into the vitalsView attachment 405423View attachment 405424View attachment 405425

This next deer was a small buck my wife took at 308 yards. Buch was on the move when she shot him and slightly quartered to.