Discussion on reloading process

[Reelamin]

Your cleaning process makes good sense to me however I keep hearing from guys saying they never do or they stopped doing. I'm definitely not apposed but I like simple and if I can do it without cleaning that's one step I'll remove.

I scratched several dies not getting case neck clean enough. Yep they were replaced for free. Clean cases and I Never replaced a die in last 30 years for scratches.

I don't load a lot. My highest volume die 223 I only load about 10-15k a year on. Just a RCBS 3 die set.

 

[QuietTexan]

I am looking to load the best ammo I can that is safe and stable for hunting scenarios. I am not the worlds greatest shot but I am not the worst either. I am very comfortable with a gun in my hand. It's hard to put a number on an "ethical" shot so I'll leave that aside but I want to also practice out to 1200 or so with this same ammo. Precise/Safe/stable I guess sums it up.

With that in mind, my advice for your goals would be to focus on consistency first, because that's the name of the game at 1000+ yards. Consistent > perfect in my book, meaning high quality measuring tools are most important up front. I like the Whidden die and it comes with a comparator, but Short Action Custom makes a $175 set that you can set up to get a shoulder comparator and two bullet comparators at the same time - that will let you check shoulder bump and sort bullets by bearing length. Mitu or another high end caliper to pair with those, and you'll be set. Dies since you're already looking at the Whidden - either that if you want to try the click feature, a Redding completion set, or a Forster bump and competition seater.

Which mandrels are you looking at? 21st Century and K+M both make great sets, I'd get the whole range for 6.5mm and use those and bushings rather than worrying about turning and/or reaming the necks.

Your press and brass are great, what are you using for a scale?

 

[JD Jones]

With that in mind, my advice for your goals would be to focus on consistency first, because that's the name of the game at 1000+ yards. Consistent > perfect in my book, meaning high quality measuring tools are most important up front. I like the Whidden die and it comes with a comparator, but Short Action Custom makes a $175 set that you can set up to get a shoulder comparator and two bullet comparators at the same time - that will let you check shoulder bump and sort bullets by bearing length. Mitu or another high end caliper to pair with those, and you'll be set. Dies since you're already looking at the Whidden - either that if you want to try the click feature, a Redding completion set, or a Forster bump and competition seater.

Which mandrels are you looking at? 21st Century and K+M both make great sets, I'd get the whole range for 6.5mm and use those and bushings rather than worrying about turning and/or reaming the necks.

Your press and brass are great, what are you using for a scale?

21st is the mandrel set I'm looking to get and I currently have an rcbs charge master lite

I'm not sold on the WHIDDEN solely but it came recommended. SAC is also one brand I have only briefly considered but heard good things

 

[JD Jones]

Also the mitu is coming from Santa

 

[Mike Matteson]

I note you are talking about shooting out to 1200yds. That all and find. there more to it than what has been stated above. Need to read about "ES" Extreme Spread, which deals with velocity and what it does to your groups. "SD" Standard Deviation. If you are shooting under 500yds not much to worry about. Longer yards different story. There is some great reading and look it up on the net. I would suggest Bryan Litz and see what he has to say. The farther you shoot the more the ES, & SD comes into play. I understand that you are just starting reloading. I feel the more you read the more you will understand what it takes. So I would do a lot of reading before getting to much reloading equipment. It will get to "I wish I knew then, what I know now". Search the net for article on reloading. The bottom line this is the place to come to. You may get a lot of answers and some are wrong and others are right on.
Welcome to LRH.

 

[L.Sherm]

Don't get hung up on E.S, trust what your target tells you. A good load that will repeat in the distance your after doesn't matter if the E.S is 25 or 5.
Theres plenty of good BR shooters will vouch for that.

 

[L.Sherm]

Here is a post a very good 1,000 BR and ELR shooter is answering a guys question about E.S. I find the same thing he's talking about when the guy was trying to find a " velocity" node.

 

[QuietTexan]

Just get a college degree in statistics, it'll be easier in the long run

Statistics for Shooters – Executive Summary

Over the past 3 articles, we covered a lot of ground! I realize this series was deeper than what mo...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[Reelamin]

Here is a good example though not a absolute I just shot last week. This was a throw together load for one of my 06 practice rifles. Totally stock Factory old 700 ADL (Pre 69 model) in a wood stock, metal butt pad, wood stock. I floated the barrel and bedded the action and it shoots great even with the sight screws still sticking out of the barrel. My old/original practice load is with a 180BT -.5" at 100, and todays world I could not take shooting those bullets into rocks and dirt clumps. I grabbed my 175 Nosler Match practice bullets, seated them to the same OAL at ogive, same brass/primer/powder charge and loaded up six. The first three top group and the second three bottom group. The average velocity was the exact same, but notice the ES and SD difference. It could have been the second group and me settling in or a serious proof of the ES/SD variation thing. Yes, LOL... the targets are upside down...I don't care I'm shooting groups.

 

[JD Jones]

Just get a college degree in statistics, it'll be easier in the long run

Statistics for Shooters – Executive Summary

Over the past 3 articles, we covered a lot of ground! I realize this series was deeper than what mo...

precisionrifleblog.com

Luckily I already spent plenty of college hours in stats lol

 

[Beluebow]

This is my process...

1. Anneal with a BenchSource.
2. Decap with universal decapper.
3. Throw brass in baking pan, soak with Dillion case lube.
4. FLS with a bushing die.
5. Throw all sized brass into a tub of acetone for 5-10 minutes...give or take.
6. Throw all brass into corn cob media tumbler for 45min to one hour+.
7. Pick tumbling media out with tooth pick.
8. Lube necks with Neo-Lube #2
9. Expand necks with expander mandrel.
10. Trim.
11. Brush necks with nylon brush...one pass.
12. Prime.
13. Charge.
14. Seat bullets.

Pretty simple stuff that has a proven track record that works for me. There may be other variations that end up at the same place. You just gotta figure out what works for you.

 

[nksmfamjp]

1- decap as a stand-alone operation
2- lube case (imperial)
3- full length resize (decapper and expander removed) WHIDDEN bushing click die is what I'm looking at
4- neck lube & neck tension w/mandrel
5- trim case chamfer and deburr
6- prime case
7- powder charge
8- seat bullet (looking for bullet seater recommendation ; considering the bullet specific WHIDDEN or a Forster)

Your process looks fine albeit complicated. Whidden makes fine dies and I really like that they make different size bushings and expanders. You really need both.

The click adjuster is another cool thing until you begin reloading and learn that with care, you can adjust most dies in 0.0005" increments with a little effort.

I would skip #4 until you prove out your Whidden dies aren't good enough. What do you hope to gain? How do you know your die cannot provide that?

Need more measurement tools. That will help you diagnose issues an make accurate ammo. I would suggest you get or consider:
Top tier scale like A&D FX-120i
Tools to measure CBTO and CBTD
Ball Micrometer for measuring neck thickness
Top level runout tool like 21st century
Good priming tool like K&M or better
1" outside micrometer

 

[Reelamin]

Luckily I already spent plenty of college hours in stats lol

LOL...made me laugh. I can remember the day as my first stats class was at 8am. I was still poo poo faced from the night before and the professor said "Your proven statistical facts can be the exact opposite result if you want by how you word the intended results". This was a different time and professors were EDUCATORS more so than todays INDOCTRINATORS. My mouth ran and I asked "What the hell am I wasting my time and money in this class for if I can make the same results with the same data be anything I want it to be by just changing words". Professor Bill....yes I remember his name from 35 years ago....just laughed and said "Because you have to in order to graduate. So, its up to you cook the numbers get a piece of paper that says your smart or prove your point and get a job at McDonalds". BAM...bitch slapped me twice with a laugh. I stayed in class and had many more great discussions and debates.

 

[emp1953]

Newb post #2
I've been reading and watching and think I'm at a place that makes sense as far as process is concerned. I'm new to reloading so things will change over time but I'm simple and I like to follow checklists.

1- decap as a stand-alone operation
2- lube case (imperial)
3- full length resize (decapper and expander removed) WHIDDEN bushing click die is what I'm looking at
4- neck lube & neck tension w/mandrel
5- trim case chamfer and deburr
6- prime case
7- powder charge
8- seat bullet (looking for bullet seater recommendation ; considering the bullet specific WHIDDEN or a Forster)

Plan is to anneal eventually but I think I can get pretty far with the brass I have before I add that to process. I would like to hear thoughts on the frequency.

Am I forgetting anything? Things to consider? I left out cleaning brass but understand there's different opinions on this as with most things.

Press is a co-ax
Brass is ADG
Only focused on reloading for 6.5 PRC

Annealing can be visited when your previously good groups inexplicably go to crap.