Difference between? Loading for the AR-10. Using 168 gr

[Upsidedownjack]

Loading for an AR-10 with a 1:10 twist. Will the "Hornaday "A" Max 168 gr 308 rateded for a 1:12 twist be (?) staple out to say 500 yards? I've been loading the Speer Gold Match hpbt, and the Sierra TMK Tipped match king. Both of them seem to be @mok out that range. MOK. min of kill And are being shot out of a 1:10 , 16" pipe!

 

[rammac]

I'll bite, what the muck is a MOK?

 

[Upsidedownjack]

I'll bite, what the muck is a MOK?

Min of Kill!

 

[rammac]

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[Upsidedownjack]

MOK? If the kill zone is 18" @500 yds (if) you can 100% of the Time hit with-in that 18". You shoot "MOK". Targets are MOA, Mil, but not always MOK. Death is MOK! Punching paper is a Lot different than Killing/Hunting! Because not all that shoot can "Kill" what they shoot at, but can Hit Paper at LONG Ranges!
help?

 

[rammac]

I suspect that you think I'm being stupid but the problem is that when you use a phrase like MOK, for which there is no definition, then nobody else but you know what kind of performance you think is good so nobody can provide any relevant information for your benefit.

What are you shooting that you think has an 18" kill zone? A kill zone is the same size no matter how far the animal is from you, an 18" kill zone is 18" at 50 yards or 500 yards. Your thinking doesn't make much sense to me, MOA, MILs, inches, they are ways to define how well your rifle, ammo, and shooter system works, if you can't identify how well it works then how can you be confident in hitting your target? If my setup can't shoot groups any smaller than 18" then how could I expect to hit an 18" target in the field? Personally I'm still working on my .308 AR trying to get the tightest groups that I can and I'm holding 1 MOA at 100 yards, that would be about a 5" group at 500 yards, and yes, I hunt and have for many years. I believe in making heart shots so my expectation of a MOK would be around 6 or 8 inches, depending on the animal I'm shooting at, so 1 MOA is a reasonable goal for my setup. A lung shot works and if I miss the heart I'll still hit the lungs but like the old saying goes; Aim small, miss small.

Obviously you are happy with 3.5 MOA groups at 500 yards, that's about 3 inches or so at 100 yards and if that seems good to you then I'd say that you can shoot any ammo you want and still be within that definition of precision. Changing over to a 168 gr Amax shouldn't make much difference for your shooting style. It did with mine, I get my best groups right now using either 175gr TTSX bullets or 180gr Accubonds. The 168gr Amax bullets that I tried opened my groups up to 2 to 3 inches so I wont continue to use them.

Just to let you know that I'm not speaking out of my backside, I have a Springfield Victor AR that has a 1:10" twist 16" barrel and I can hold 1 MOA groups with it, I also have an M1A SOCOM with a 1:11" twist 16.25" barrel which I can hold sub-MOA groups with.

 

[Upsidedownjack]

I suspect that you think I'm being stupid but the problem is that when you use a phrase like MOK, for which there is no definition, then nobody else but you know what kind of performance you think is good so nobody can provide any relevant information for your benefit.

What are you shooting that you think has an 18" kill zone? A kill zone is the same size no matter how far the animal is from you, an 18" kill zone is 18" at 50 yards or 500 yards. Your thinking doesn't make much sense to me, MOA, MILs, inches, they are ways to define how well your rifle, ammo, and shooter system works, if you can't identify how well it works then how can you be confident in hitting your target? If my setup can't shoot groups any smaller than 18" then how could I expect to hit an 18" target in the field? Personally I'm still working on my .308 AR trying to get the tightest groups that I can and I'm holding 1 MOA at 100 yards, that would be about a 5" group at 500 yards, and yes, I hunt and have for many years. I believe in making heart shots so my expectation of a MOK would be around 6 or 8 inches, depending on the animal I'm shooting at, so 1 MOA is a reasonable goal for my setup. A lung shot works and if I miss the heart I'll still hit the lungs but like the old saying goes; Aim small, miss small.

Obviously you are happy with 3.5 MOA groups at 500 yards, that's about 3 inches or so at 100 yards and if that seems good to you then I'd say that you can shoot any ammo you want and still be within that definition of precision. Changing over to a 168 gr Amax shouldn't make much difference for your shooting style. It did with mine, I get my best groups right now using either 175gr TTSX bullets or 180gr Accubonds. The 168gr Amax bullets that I tried opened my groups up to 2 to 3 inches so I wont continue to use them.

Just to let you know that I'm not speaking out of my backside, I have a Springfield Victor AR that has a 1:10" twist 16" barrel and I can hold 1 MOA groups with it, I also have an M1A SOCOM with a 1:11" twist 16.25" barrel which I can hold sub-MOA groups with.

Like wise, Not trying to sound like an But, But! If raining and wind Is 10 Mph gusting 20-25 And you can make a Kill at 500 yds. In a Lope with a kill zone of (?) 6", or and Elk at 800 yds in a 18" zone? Big difference in size and Distance, but both Dead! Or shooting Paper at 100 - 500-1000 makes little difference.. one makes Holes, one makes meat in the Freezer! Moa/Mok?