Darn Non-Resident Hunters?!?

[Tom Wright]

I've seen it come up on a lot of threads and am so confused by this concept of "non-residents" being bad stewards of the land/resource (trash, disrespectful, bad sportsman, etc), YET most hunters hunt multiple states!! Does that mean they are perfect citizens in their own state, then complete degenerates in the non-res states??!!

Or maybe, bad apples are just that! I have family who hunt and live in a few other western states, and am in the field a lot Aug - Jan…..my brother and I alone have 7 hunts in 4 states this year. During all my time in the field, I have seen absolute no correlation between res and non-res with respect to being bad stewards, and again, for all those hunters that claim non-res people are the problem, I hope you are all looking in the mirror the next time you hunt outside your home state.

By the way, I'm the guy who will always welcome you into my camp to chat or have a beer, and genuinely want to support my fellow hunters. If you have a flat tire, I will offer to help. If you are in the camp next to me and are a slob, I'm going to stop on my way out to clean it up (and likely report you). AND, I'm a big believer in supporting the local small business owners (motels, super market, restaurants, gun stores, etc) and local guides/outfitters (when I am too busy with family or work to scout a new area).

IMO, I see this non res BS here and elsewhere a lot when residents are trying to justify changing res vs non res fees or allocations. But again, MOST hunters are both res and non res hunters, so I scratch my head. On this particular subject, I do think the actions of one (state) can ruin it for the rest of the states, so I do wish their was a 'Western State Alliance (equal representation from each state)' to set basic standards on allocation/etc……that way, no one feels like they can screw people for the sake another state did it (ie - change to 90/10 or worse b/c their residents have to deal with that as non-residents in the boardering/surrounding states)…..BTW, this isn't a 90/10 debate, just using as an Good luck to all the res and non res hunters on your hunts this year and keep a look out for those bad apples!

Well in these days when we seem to have lost our way, it's not surprising to hear this. When I was young we were taught as Scouts to always leave a place better than you found it. Unfortunately now many don't feel any obligation to pick up their trash or respect others' property or property lines. I hunted in Georgia for over 25 years. The problem wasn't those of us who came from other states—we had a long trek to camp and worked hard to set things up for a good hunting season. I never had a problem with them, but I did with the locals—they thought nothing of trespassing or leaving gates open or sitting in your stands, hunting there when you were back at home.

Unfortunately in many western states they love non resident fees and the money that is brought in, but they are making it much more difficult and costly and difficult to hunt in those states. There are many issues involved, but it falls to each of us to be respectful towards fellow hunters and the landowners/public land where we CAN hunt. We have too many working against our right to hunt to make things worse by disrespecting each other, or turning off land owners/ managers by being unappreciative guests.

Make sure when fingers are pointed at other that you're not pointing, and that your actions are not the cause of others anger.

 

[MZmoose]

There are turds in every state. The worst I have seen were residents,(Washington) usually local rednecks littering, trespassing, poaching, and worse. I tried to take my boys to some private property I had hunted when I was young but no one would give us permission because they all had stories about their barn being shot, or their livestock, or hunters killing a deer in his wife's garden....all this for a whitetail deer... My friend hunted north Idaho as a nonresident and on his elk hunt someone flattened two tires on his atv, when he was out hunting. He was 7 miles from camp. When I was younger I thought it was dumb for people pay for a lease land to hunt private land. But after years of dealing with the public, on public land we got a hunting lease. It is by far the best investment I've made for my hunting. We always have a place to hunt and take our kids hunting without most of the hassle of public land. We had an occasional trespasser and one poacher but we had them arrested by the county sheriff and fish n game and word got out to stay off our lease. I know not everyone has the opportunity but if a hunting lease comes available I highly recommend it. It's sad that turds ruin public land and give the anti's ammunition to be used against all of us.

 

[DWier]

There are bad apples in all aspects of our society. Our 'society of hunters' is not immune. Thankfully most of us aren't. I live in Florida and hunt in Georgia. At first we were 'those Florida hunters' but after a few years we became 'family'. We invite everyone we know for supper every night and while not everyone comes most do. We even had one guy insist we hunt his property when we lost part of our lease. I think the best thing we can do is show everyone we are normal people, ethical hunters and want to be friends.

 

[Boomer2020]

A lot of truth here, but it goes much further. It is the same in any public place in any activity. Residency has little or no effect. About the only way to hunt in peace anymore is to own or lease land, or go somewhere so remote you won't be bothered. There is no other escape.

These are further examples of the "cancel" culture pandemic infecting our society. We need for good people snd good actions to be celebrated.

 

[bamban]

Reading this with keen interest. This coming season I would be going to SW CO, a few miles up from Cortez, with some friends (they've hunted there a few times) for the 1st time. Four of us from TX, and a couple from the West Coast.

 

[wolffo]

I pick up a lot of trash in colorado

 

[freddiej]

I share some of your sentiments. I have no issue with res. VS. non-res if they are polite and have good strong morals. It's the jerks I have a real problem with. I have been the recipient of some "sound shot" when I lost my footing on a slippery rock or log. I have seen some of my own campsites (my base/scouting camp I set up a week or two before opening of season) absolutely wrecked by people that got there before I got there to hunt. my wood used up, my fire pit destroyed, my piles of under bedding gone or soaked down with urine. I can not blame this on other hunters because I do not know it was other hunters. I am more inclined to blame eco-tree huggers for this wanton destruction. I have seen what I thought was everything man on a mission could do to other's solace and tranquility. but reading things here I have hardly seen the worst of people. I have had to report drunken hunter before. I have had to report poachers before, I have been threatened by poachers at the end of their rifles before. I hate to say it but there are some real great examples of bad examples. I have not solutions but to have the rangers and wardens take care of them. we as hunters can not just "fix" the problem on our own.. no matter how we feel at that moment. come to think of it.. wasn't the "Wild wild west" much more civil? just a passing thought and question. I would volunteer for a mentorship program for young hunters and old alike to just sit them down and mend their ways and educate them on the horrible things they could do if they do not follow the rules. especially the "sound shot" shooting at something you only hear int he distance rather than see. God was watching those days.. slugs nearly got me in the shoulder and the head on a couple of occasions. I've mostly hunted N. Calif, N. Idaho, W. Montana, once in Maine and once in Vermont. loved every hunt in all the states. I would not give up all the wonderful people and land I have gotten to know for the few times I had to deal with arrogant jerks. just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Coldfinger]

I've seen it come up on a lot of threads and am so confused by this concept of "non-residents" being bad stewards of the land/resource (trash, disrespectful, bad sportsman, etc), YET most hunters hunt multiple states!! Does that mean they are perfect citizens in their own state, then complete degenerates in the non-res states??!!

Or maybe, bad apples are just that! I have family who hunt and live in a few other western states, and am in the field a lot Aug - Jan…..my brother and I alone have 7 hunts in 4 states this year. During all my time in the field, I have seen absolute no correlation between res and non-res with respect to being bad stewards, and again, for all those hunters that claim non-res people are the problem, I hope you are all looking in the mirror the next time you hunt outside your home state.

By the way, I'm the guy who will always welcome you into my camp to chat or have a beer, and genuinely want to support my fellow hunters. If you have a flat tire, I will offer to help. If you are in the camp next to me and are a slob, I'm going to stop on my way out to clean it up (and likely report you). AND, I'm a big believer in supporting the local small business owners (motels, super market, restaurants, gun stores, etc) and local guides/outfitters (when I am too busy with family or work to scout a new area).

IMO, I see this non res BS here and elsewhere a lot when residents are trying to justify changing res vs non res fees or allocations. But again, MOST hunters are both res and non res hunters, so I scratch my head. On this particular subject, I do think the actions of one (state) can ruin it for the rest of the states, so I do wish their was a 'Western State Alliance (equal representation from each state)' to set basic standards on allocation/etc……that way, no one feels like they can screw people for the sake another state did it (ie - change to 90/10 or worse b/c their residents have to deal with that as non-residents in the boardering/surrounding states)…..BTW, this isn't a 90/10 debate, just using as an example.

Good luck to all the res and non res hunters on your hunts this year and keep a look out for those bad apples!

For every finger that's pointed there's always 3 pointing back! I've even had to swallow that old saying but it's so very true!

 

[5.56×250]

I didnt read any responses , just the OP, so if its already been said, forgive me.
In a nutshell, residence feel protective of their resources and many don't like dare I say, priveledged , and fortunate out of state hunters having a chance at the animals they have scouted all summer . I dont hunt out of state, so i can only see it from a homebodies poi t of view. I dont begrudge out of state hunters, but i can easily see human nature to be protective of what a person feels a connection to as being an excuse to put the , ummmmm.....trespassers (?) in a bad light . There are all kinds of people in this world , many of whom don't like people they don't know buying a chance at " their" game.

 

[MZmoose]

Selfish ignorance and malicious haters are bad for our sport. And pretty much everything else.

 

[74honker]

As in all things in life 'IT DEPENDS"
Out west were there are 100K's of public land acres to hunt and being a non-resident can have a lesser affect on the residents as the non-res numbers are usually at least some what controlled. But in my old home state of IL and my home state of the last 19 years IN and most states west of the Mississippi non-residents competing with residents for public and private land access is a VERY real problem.
The only state west of the Mississippi I am aware of that has serious nonresident deer hunter controls is IA.
Most other states DNR's are utterly in-lust with $$$ generated from non-resident deer tags.

There are counties in IL where more land is leased by non-res and outfitters for hunts than is hunted by residents and I know this to be fact. And this was true way back in the late 1990's and early 2000's

I went from having access to about 1k private acres in the mid 80's to late 90's and buy the late 90's lost it all to mostly nonresident outfitters paying IMO insane prices to lease farms for bow only hunts. These mostly but not all nonresident outfitters again this IMO many were committing nothing short of fraud for what they were charging for 5 day hunts on very small areas of habitat that they were running hunter through 5 days a week beginning 3rd or 4th week of OCT until 3rd week pf November.

I know more than a few farmers caught leasing land they leased for farming but didn't own and leased out the hunting rights to both nonresidents as well as nonresident outfitters this was not an isolated problem.

I had one farm that was 295 acres, 100 acres was a near prefect rectangle of superb deer habitat the other 195 acres was un-huntable CRP. An outfitter from KY leased it from my land owner for NO BS God's honest truth $7.5k a year yes that's correct $7,500 per year for a 3 year lease 75% cash up front and this was in 1996 no less. Outfitter told my land owner he would make his money on the lease back in less than two weeks putting three bow hunters on the land per week, 1st 5 days for $2k each. The next 5 it went to $2200, pre-rut hunts were $2500, rut hunt week was at $2700 per hunter. I know this to be absolutely true because my land owner showed me a copy of the outfitters brochure.

This was not an isolated incident by any means. I witnessed MANY families brake up due to cousins, uncles and grand fathers leasing out land that their relatives had hunted for generations to outfitters or started outfitting operations themselves. My primary land owner and I had become very good friends in the almost 15 years I hunted his land and he wouldn't let even his own brother charge me to hunt, but very tragically he was killed in an auto accident. His children INSTANTLY formed an outfitting business called "Prairieland Whitetails" and 5 day bow non pre or rut hunts were $2300 and this was in 1997.

I had another 110 acre farm in Calhoun Co IL part of about 490 acres that got leased by an outfitter for $9.7K this was in 1995. In most counties in any state west of the Mississippi if you wish to hunt private land if you can even find any available, you will be leasing at $20-$40 an acre now.

Last year I hunted in IL I hunted Schuyler CO. and stayed in the Mt. Sterling hotel a relatively small Ma and Pa hotel and counted license plates from over 30 states besides IL including one from AK even.

I can only speak to IL and IN where I have done most of my hunting and nonresidents have had a IMO hugely negative impact on the availability of private land to residents.

Leasing reminds me of the fallowing great line from the movie "Wallstreet" The awful thing about money is the things it makes people willing to do to get it"

Exactly! I live right in the middle of all this crap and now that they've burnt out all these areas and we've had a couple hard years of EHD in the last few, our herds are struggling. Standards have lowered and now turning into anything with a horn getting shot at just so they can collect a payday. Then they drive around and dump their carcasses in road ditches or on other peoples property, some cleaned, most just caped out and all meat still there. And YES NRs and outfitters, we catch them every year red handed and yes they pay the price but they just come back the next year anyway to try again.

 

[74honker]

I don't lease any land (either as a seller or buyer) but I disagree with your postulate that farmers "owe it to the locals" to allow hunting. It is their land; if they want to lease it, it is their right to do so. To succeed as a farmer you not only have to know agriculture, you must master the futures markets, optimize crop rotation/fertilizer/seed costs, be a good mechanic and a million other things. Earning money from hunting leases is another source of revenue and I wouldn't knock them for it.

I shoot PDs on a few alfalfa pivots; the rancher doesn't charge me, but if he did, I would gladly pay; it is cheaper than buying the land and taking care of it.

I completely agree with you that landowners or anyone for that matter having the rights of personal choice. BUT, I can tell you that farming the midwest is not like farming everywhere else. I've been in the AG field most my life and though there are thise small farmers that do struggle some, most have learned to play the game and it's now almost impossible for them to lose money. Between USDA payments, crop insurance programs that payoff like a Vegas slot machine whether they make a crop or not, etc. they can't lose. Now sure they'll all say their broke all while sitting in their $70k new pickup while their wives pack to go to the lake house for the weekend. Most of these guys are taking the hunting lease money for 1 reason and 1 reason only, GREED. Now they say well if you want to hunt my farms out bid the NR outfitter and it's yours. Not every farmer out there is this way, I know alot of good ones and great people they are, but my statements on the rest is the new normal just as DartonJagger has stated and EVERYTHING he stated is fact in this state.

 

[manitou]

In my experience, having hunted 5-10 states or provinces in some years, low moral hunters are just that. They disrespect their own states as much as any other. As to non res hunters taking or getting more, generally non res hunters pay 10-20 times the resident hunting lic fees yet are probably 20% as successful in taking game. Non res hunters are the ones who hire cousin billy bob to guide them, thus supporting countless of your resident neighbors. The money Non resident hunters bring to local hotels and restaurants keep many of those businesses open during the rest of the year so residents can eat and enjoy their communities. In my own state I spent $20 on a license and usually slept at home or at a friends. When I traveled it is not a stretch to say I spent $2000 to $10,000 in every state. Sometimes I spent considerably more. So when you hear someone moan bout out of state hunters ask them how much revenue they generate yearly and how much they positively impact the quality of hunting and fishing in your state. Ask them how many non residents own real-estate in their state just so they can hunt. Ask them how much money non resident land owners contribute to the tax base without ever using a single local service.

normally I just ask these people one simple question; "what is the opposite of above me"

Ask the resident hunters how much in taxes they spend annually by living there... income taxes, gas tax, utility tax, sales tax, property tax, and personal property tax. Ask the residents how much they spend buying sporting goods, food, restaurants, lawn supplies, vehicles, recreation, etc.
Ask the residents how much time they donate to conservation and wildlife causes...

 

[Lenny Foffa]

Overly Aggressive, overly Greedy "Don't give Dam " hunters have no exact mailing address. They go to an outfitter someplace , and getting a BIG deer is all that matters , and very often have no intention of ever coming back again anyway . Their Rude behavior makes it terrible for all of us who love this sport . Perhaps we need an "Ethics Class "as part of the Hunter Safety Course. In my youth ,working in a gun shop for many years , the bragging stories I have heard from these types of hunters make you sick.